Hi folks, I’m working on an old Snorkel 27 scissor lift. It has a Wisconsin V4 engine that runs fine on gas. When I switch it over to propane, it works and runs for maybe 5 - 10 minutes before the regulator starts to ice up and the engine quits. Starts right up if I switch back to gas. If I go poking around other forklift forums, everyone says the coolant lines from the engine are blocked, etc etc. That might be the case, but this is an air cooled engine - no coolant lines to warm up the regulator. So I’m looking for any pointers you may have. I don’t know much about LP systems. I have a forklift at the shop and a grill at home, but they’ve never broken and made me learn about them. A frosty regulator would suggest to me that it’s passing too much LP, but if that were true, the engine wouldn’t be running well, right? Ugh. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Where is the regulator mounted?
When first started on propane (before freezing) does the engine run ok? The regulator isn't passing to much fuel, it's not capable of vaporizing what it uses. Check the air flow over the fins of the regulator, they are comparable to coolant flow in a liquid system. The body of the regulator can only loose so much heat before it freezes. Is this a new install or has it been running before? As liquid propane doesn't burn, when the body is to cold then you are just feeding the engine liquid. We use to run oil from the engine lube system to the regulator for machines running in cold temps.
Right next to the engine, on a bracket up near the heads. The engine should warm it a little eventually, but only a few minutes of running is maybe not enough time to get some heat into the regulator?
I would put a engine water cooled regulator on it if you have the spots to run the lines
The engine actually runs better on propane than gas. Its runs well on it. Fins on the LP regulator? I don't think there are any, but I'll go back this afternoon and look more closely. The machine always had LP from the factory, but we just replaced the regulator because the old one stopped working altogether. Machine was sitting for 10 years. My forklift has engine coolant running through the regulator, and I can run it all day. I've never checked how cold it gets though. I understand it's more accurately called the evaporator / regulator because you put LP in and get gaseous propane out. The guy at the factory is only suggesting water in the lines causing the freezing, but it's not just a small part of it that's freezing, it's the whole regulator gets all frosty like the coldest beer you've ever had. Yesterday when we ran it, it had just stopped raining and was quite humid outside, so a little condensation / frost might be the norm, but that would mean this thing is only meant to run where it's not humid
It's an air cooled Wisconsin V4. No coolant to run through it.
My bad. I knew that!
If you installed a standard liquid evaporator, it will not work. The V4 Wisconsin requires more BTU's than a standard requlator / vaporizer can provide. That is the reason for the fins on an air heated unit.
I replaced the original with the exact same one. The p/n was superseded, but it's identical (or looks that way anyway). Can you expound a bit on what regulator / evaporator that V4 might need?
Post a picture of the unit on the machine and also pictures of the engine (all sides). Most of these used either an Algas or J&S back in the day and had a bracket on the engine to place the fins in the airflow. A few machines using the V4 had a 100 lb propane tank and vapor withdrawal, the 100 lb tank was capable of supplying enough vapor pressure and didn't need a vaporizer, only a regulator.
OK. As it turns out, I'm not going back this afternoon, but will go back on Monday. It might have a 100lb tank on it. My forklift has a 50lb (I believe) tank on it, and it runs a Nissan 4 cylinder gasser just fine using the liquid port. Of course, it's warmed by the engine coolant, too. I'll get some pics and post also.
Your forklift probably has a 33 lb tank. If it is a larger tank on the Snorkel, some tanks had dual withdrawal (vapor and liquid), if so the connector may be on the wrong port.
One other thing that you can try. Look at the hose connection on the tank and rotate the tank until the connection is straight up. Run the engine until the liquid is out of the line at which time it will be running on vapor. See how long it runs until the tank freezes, this will get you by for awhile. A tank that is less than full will work best.
I took some pics today. I’ll try to post them. It’s a Beam 50 regulator. I have a pic of the old one there too. You can see how close it is to the engine, but it doesn’t get warm fast enough to keep the regulator warm. The factory has washed their hands of me. Just wondering, what if I let the engine run on gas long enough to get / keep the regulator warm? Hmm. Now that I’m thinking about it, that may be my only option. Oh by the way, the tank is positioned now so that the liquid line is as high as possible. No change yet.
That V/R will not run as an air heated unit. They had to have ran a vapor withdrawal tank. Also the position of the connector is not correct, you need the hose at 12:00 o'clock not the valve position. In that position the tube is well into liquid propane, not the vapor.
I just found out (buried in the manual) that the tank is supposed to be “vapor withdrawal”, not liquid. Also that Beam 50 shows as being just a regulator not a vaporizer / regulator. I’m thinking we got the wrong kind of tank on there.
No the Beam 50 is also a vaporizer but only with liquid cooled engines.
I think we posted at the same time. So, when you say the hose needs to be at 12:00, the hose needs to be pointing straight up? Won’t that out the feed pipe or whatever is inside the tank at a lower position, if I rotate the tank?
No, the tube goes in the direction of the coupling. That's how on liquid withdrawal the tube ends up low in the tank, you want it high.
Could you run engine oil though a water colded regulator to warn it up enough
So I need to rotate the tank roughly 90 degrees counterclockwise?
Closing notes: So the issue was multi-fold. Firstly, the regulator was freezing because it was evaporating and regulating. I took the tank to an LP shop, they evacuated the tank, switched the feed to “vapor” and re-filled it. So now we got vapor instead of liquid. The other problem was there is a vacuum-operated switch near the engine that would close when intake vacuum was present. That switch closure powered the LP solenoid valve that allows vapor to flow. The vacuum hose to that switch was dryrotted and broken. Replaced that hose, all switches and valves worked, and the engine runs on LP now, for the first time in 20 years. Now the old man can sell it.