There always seems to be a majority of threads here for case backhoes. What do you guys think? Either case is a top selling backhoe, or most unreliable? What do you guys think?
There's 80 million of them still out there.
Where did you get that number?
When I joined HEF I was in the market for a backhoe. As I read all of the new posts, to me, it seamed like one john deere after another, and I got kinda scared of them much as you have stated about the Case. As time goes by, it seems like all the brands have their fair share of threads. As Vetech said, there are a lot of them out there, so it makes sense that they do break down from time to time.
I would wager his arse.
I don't know. I have had three Case backhoes, two John Deere. When a Case needs work, my Case dealer has gone above & beyond. John Deere, the standard response is "No Longer Available." Problems I have had with Case have mostly been the result of wear or neglect. Rust, & wiring harness issues could have been prevented with indoor storage. My newest, a 580 Super N 2014 model is new enough to have too many computers & alarms. Transmission won't go into first. Took it to the dealer yesterday. I'll let you know how it turns out. 18 years I have had nothing but good to say about my Case dealer, they are fantastic with parts, and the few times I have needed service they have been excellent.
I bought an older Caterpillar. Glad I did because parts are pretty much available in a matter of a day or two. Mine was built in '88 or '89. I have had John Deere equipment before. Parts get obsoleted way too quick. JD was not on my shopping list. I think Case makes less expensive machines than some of the other brands therefore they end up in the hands of DIY. DIYers typically go to forums looking for info, help, etc. Pros don't as a general rule.
Think of it like this..... case isn’t any different than GM. The more there are, the more good reviews, bad reviews, complaints, recalls, etc. Not to mention they have been around for 50+ years, so a lot of machines are out there. Most of the threads I see here are discussing machines in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Not bad if you ask me.
Didnt case make the first backhoe. No machine is 100% they all have problems. I see more old case equipment then any others but that may just be a geographical thing. Old case skid steere are the oldest skid steere I see. No Bobcats, kubota, deere, or cat. Lots of old 1840's still running around
History of the backhoe loader: https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/a-look-at-the-history-of-the-backhoe-loader/25186
I came across a similar article, and it seems wain-roy and jcb were the first to produce backhoes, and case came out a little later. jcb sells over 50% of the backhoes worldwide today. That's an impressive statistic.
Case was the north american market leader in backhoe sales for 30 years deere started making backhoes in 71 case started in the 60s cat didn't come along till the end of the 80s and cats answer to making backhoes was hire guys from case But think of it this way I bet there are 100s of thousands of case backhoes average world wide backhoe numbers a year are 10000 to 15000 and that is half of what was made 15 years ago mini ex have really cut into the backhoe market
I had a 320, I learned a lot on that thing. Got a calendar from the dealer on the 50th anniversary, had a 320 & an Edsel on it. No nekkid ladies though. Joe H
Out of thin air LOL.......I may be off a bit
A local bought one new in the mid sixties. He made his living with it 35 years. Some people don't retire, they get tired. His business faded as more excavators took the jobs he once did. New houses got BIG. One day i came upon his backhoe on its side on the edge of a brook 3/4? mile from his home. I later learned he had been found dead, run over by the left rear tire. What route it took, I've never known. The tractor travelled unmanned down a steep hill a very long way unmanned, until it flipped on the brook bank. Later, it was found he had a heart attack. Seems he collapsed, fell in front of the wheel. I've never known if it was the same machine, but an identical 530 Construction King became the only digger for another excavator. He made a sort of living 10? years with it. He played the disability game, got a SSI pension, but kept the backhoe. It has been on a used car dealer's lot several years for sale. I can't estimate how many hours this thing has on it, I'll guess staggering! My theory: There are a great many old Case machines in possession of hobbyist diggers. They seek advice for the many old age problems these tractors have due to age, wear, and neglect.
We've discussed this one before. There are simply more Case machines out there than any other.
I know of at least 5 Case backhoes that are within 10 miles of me.............all have been sitting for years with weeds around them as tall as me. It seems EVERYONE had a Case backhoe back in the day.
My first backhoe was a 1974 John Deere 410. It was already old when I bought it. I didn't pay much, so I should have surmised something wasn't said. It had little wear in any pivots, rear bucket had little wear, and front was still in very good condition, except they hadn't replaced the weld on cutting edge when they should. They had done a crude job of repairing it. I drove it home 9 miles & didn't make it. It leaked Hy-tran bad! That proved to be a cracked hydraulic fitting. Cheap fix, near impossible to get to it. It dug fine first half hour, then ran out of power. That's when I learned the dealer 25 miles from home was closed Nortrax (70 miles away was my closest dealer. A lot of research later, someone suggested an infra red camera as a diagnostic tool. I sent the 6 section valve to New Hampshire Hydraulics. They responded that 2 of six sections had been defective when new. John Deere said NLA. NHH eventually sold me an aftermarket valve that didn't fit. I had to build a new joystick assembly to fit the new valve. 25 years later, I bought another JD. The experience was similar. Dealer offered no solution, only NLA. After many calls I asked to speak to the Service Manager. "We can rebuild it for you, or sell you the rebuild kit." After all that, it was simple! I've never seen that with Case.
As of 2005, Case had already produced 500,000 backhoes. In their 175th year, 2017, Case had already produced 500,000 skidsteers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_Construction_Equipment?wprov=sfla1
I'm on my 4th Case backhoe since 1989 sold the first 3 with between 15 and 20 thou. hrs and have 8,000+ hrs on the one I now use. I have not spent over $4,000.00 in repairs yet altogether. I maintain them and have done all repairs but one myself. Must also add the Case dealer here always bent over backwards to advise and supply any necessary parts. Never had one that used and oil or didn't start right up until -10 C. BTW 99% of the time they were plugged in once it got near freezing unless on a job sight.
For every deere and cat I work on seems like I work on 2 case's. I like the cases, could have done without the cast pieces on some hoes tho, but otherwise ok machines.
Yeah, & the over center latching of backhoe boom is not real convenient. I believe they are prone to damage when operator is too rough with it. Don't latch it up, you're sure to do a wheelie. These things are very rear heavy! Best way to latch it is using a stabilizer to push it up.
That is very creative way to do it Willie. I used to extend the backhoe all the way out. The boom has more momentum when latching it.
First time i ran a case i didnt know about the latch i got it by accident. Next time i think had to get out the manual .
I get a dirt bath doing that. If I have a big rock in reach I use extend a hoe to do it, otherwise I use a stabilizer.
Well...I don't know really. But here's my two cents for what it's worth. We were a small time operation mainly putting in septic systems for many years. My Pops was the primary (only) backhoe operator. We put a backhoe on the job 5 days a week for typically 8 to 10 hours each day depending on weather. He used Ford backhoes exclusively for years and had good service from them. No real surprises come to mind except we broke the main backhoe boom on the last one (Ford 675D) after many years and hours of use. Must of been some fracture that was unnoticeable to us. Anyway, replaced the boom and it kept on getting it to this day. Last backhoe he bought before passing was a CAT 420D. Several dealers let us try out comparable models before the purchase. And when I say "try out" we put them on actual jobs for full days work for 3 to 5 days. And they were new. Not from the rental lot although I'm sure these would end up being the new rentals or loaners. We tried out: Case New Holland (Ford was being sold a couple of times and being re-branded just "New Holland".) John Deere Komatsu Caterpillar I went over them afterwards with the main eye towards if something would break. Fuel efficiency, cycle time, etc. didn't mean that much. What I recall is that John Deere, Caterpillar, and Komatsu all did comparably well. Comparable power, similar sized hydraulics, and no issues after putting them through their paces. -John Deere just seemed to want so much more for what you got compared to others. At least here and at the time. -Komatsu was the best bang for the buck. Best price, performance, and features for the dollar. -Caterpillar performed similarly to John Deere and Komatsu. It didn't really stand out by a landslide or anything. But enough and I think by Dad liked it. So he went with it. Funny thing is he was so particular about it that he continued to run the Ford 675D more than the Cat. -Case did ok. But I recall finding a leak or two in the hydraulics after only a few days of running. -New Holland was a pale comparison of what the old Ford backhoes were. Seemed there were cuts everywhere in quality. Smaller bucket arm hydraulics, etc. And I found 3 leaks of hydraulic fluid as I recall after a few days running. I know one of the mechanics that formerly worked at the Ford dealership and he told us that the 675D was one of the last "real good" backhoes before the sale with the New Holland brand launch. It seems that the Italians can destroy an anvil with a banana if given the opportunity.
I broke in on a 580 Construction King, 1969 vintage I believe. Fixed a whole bunch of stuff on that machine, including an engine O/H. It was tired the very first day I saw it. Graduated to a 580D with the same outfit. I ran it and maintained it for 2 seasons. Bought a 580SK and used it in a slightly less than full time operation. Had it four seasons. My neighbor has a 580E that he bought with 10k hours on it from an excavation outfit. I am the chief mechanic on this machine too. In my 'professional' life, I supervised a shop that had two JD 410D, six CAT 420D, and one Case 580SK. I will stick with Case.....
I have close friends who make their living digging. They are a small outfit, have pared down to 81 year old father, 58 year old son, and one 67 year old employee. They aren't in any hurry to jump into a new trend. Last few years they have bought new or near new New Holland machines. Bought a 5 yard articulated loader, a 7 metric ton excavator & 6 ton track loader. They still do a lot with backhoes, they own property all over town, & the ability to drive a few miles rather than trailer is an asset. They used a 655 1988 a very long time, then a 75B. They are agreed that the New Holland isn't the tractor the Fords were.
Doing some Googling, it looks like Case and New Holland are now owned by the same company. CNH At the risk of being behind the times and old fashioned, I bet the older stuff of both was better. But I'm suspicious of computery new stuff anyway.
I will say that production wise in my current 310 sl hl machines is really hard to meet with anything older and while I have had down time with them the reliability is there and a few of the problems encountered were not fixed right the first time so the dealer lack of diagnostics caused me about half of the down time with each machine while under Warranty
My personal experience with New Holland is limited. In the case of Case, you'd run the new stuff & be very impressed in so many ways. I'll tell you when I see my newest 2014 backhoe. It has a great deal of computer stuff they call diagnostics. I'm worried too much diagnostics might stand in the way of repair. My understanding is a large number of companies have combined their parts system CNH supplies OEM parts for numerous manufacturers.
The "diagnostics" & serilization has turned into, and will get worse, manufacturers controlling equipment with software mainly for profitability on their end. They'll lie and say it's to protect the equipment, the end user, etc. etc. etc. But it's just a lockout to keep you from repairing it without the software and/or software subscription. No secret about the farmers vs. John Deere I guess. https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7m...it-would-make-tractors-easy-to-repair-it-lied I look for it to occur in all areas of industrial equipment and consumer equipment.
Manufacturers do not care about making stuff easy to repair. Much of the computerization is to lower manufacturing costs, offer features not feasible in the past and to comply with every tighten government regulations. Manufacturers do not share their diagnostic freely. They do this to protect their dealers and themselves. Why would you spend all the R&D money, certification expenses only to give away the info? You can pay for the info and buy their equipment if you want. I work for one of the biggest auto manufacturers in the world. We do the same thing. Software fixes many issue these days. Without a scan tool that connects to our server you can't do much in the way of repairs.
I agree with you. Manufacturers look to protect their dealers and themselves. The customer is an afterthought now that they have created systems and subscriptions that are the most profitable.
I shopped for a 580K or L for nearly a year. In that time I checked the local Case dealer’s used inventory occasionally, but he sold most of the machines in my price range to an outfit that shipped them overseas. He called me last year about a 580M 4wd he had just taken in trade and thought it might be a good machine for me. He had sold it new and gave me the name of the previous owner. It had a cab with heat/air. It would be a few weeks before he could service it but if I took it that week and serviced it myself I could have it for $18k. He gave me a 3 month warranty and delivered it as well. I’ve replaced the front tires, ball joints, tie rods, etc., and some other wearable items but it’s been a great machine. I’m amazed at the depth of parts he stocks. I’ve yet to have anything unavailable or obsolete. Case dealers seem to treat smalltime guys like me well. A backhoe is often the first piece of construction equipment a person buys when starting out. Take care of him now and maybe sell him an excavator or skid steer later. I think that’s part of the reason there are so many Case backhoes.
Sold a case 580L thinking I wouldn’t need a backhoe anymore and bought a GEHL CTL .it didn’t take too long before I wished I had the hoe back. Gehl dealers in the northeast change almost annually and they do not support their equipment. The machine was only 3 years and fifty hours old when I purchased it. Here is the kicker. While I couldn’t find a dealer to service my GEHL, the case rep drives up to my house unsolicited and wants to know if there is anything I need from them. I didn’t even have a case anymore and I was just a landowner who used it at the house. The moral of the story is I am buying a case 580N with 2000 hours and I know it will be the last machine I buy. The GEHL was very well built but not very well supported. Support is the most important product a company makes, period!
The dealer is what makes the brand for most people 99 percent of the time!
We bought a 580CK (approx late 60's?) back around 2000 for around the farm. Ran great but pins and bushings were pretty loose but had pretty strong hydraulics and ran great. 188 diesel. Replaced hoses and repacked cylinders as needed over the years. We kept it until about 2012 then upgraded to a late 90,s Super L with low hrs one owner machine. Awesome machine! Started getting some cylinders leaking with time so we went ahead and repacked all the cylinders a few winters ago. As long as I could get the gland nuts loose I just loosened the hose on the butt end and pulled the rod out and took it in to the local hyd shop with the rebuilt kit and they reworked it and I brought it back home and reassembled. Less money and less work than pulling the whole cylinder. Some of them like the stabilizers I had to pull the whole cylinder since I was not able to loosen the gland nut with my spanner. The old 580CK never really left the area. We sold it to a local guy. He used it for a project and then resold. this has happened several times over the years with this machine. As long as you dont overheat, freeze the block up or run it out of oil it just keeps chugging along!
CASE a preference they're a lighter hoe nimbler don't care for the back end plus the Cummins engine reliable and good on fuel but don't sound as good as a 4045.Deere has been making backhoe since the 50s ie base model 440,1010,300,310 etc.
I think one thing with Case hoes is they were one of the first to make backhoes . So lots of shops used them . As time progressed lots of case hoes were running and as new guys came about they learned on them and passed that on . With that they are good machines . 580e I think is one of the best backhoe ever made . In my day we had IH 260 or 580 case for dealer support . We picked IH because we preferred the product line in our area . Last time I ran a Case I was called out to run a Case and I think it was a K series I crossed my hands from left to right so my wrists were in an X . That was called a pattern changer.
Cheap, cheap, cheap and cheap.
My sons have run nothing but SAE controls. I've mostly used SAE, a bit of ISO, A bit of three lever/foot swing. We did a job 60 miles from home, too far to justify hauling a backhoe, or renting a mini. Owner, a widow, said I have a Kubota mini backhoe, use it. Greased it up, checked oil & Seth began to dig. I could have sold a video. Recently deceased owner preferred Cat controls, had the dealer switch them. He soon gave up, let me dig. I sure prefer SAE control pattern! My case backhoe has a toggle switch to change pattern.
I was never much of a backhoe guy, but bought one because I needed one machine that could do everything, excavate, backfill and compact in one machine for work farther from home than I wanted to mobilize for all the time. Bought a 590SN, with 1200 hours on it from a CAT dealer (ziegler) in Mn. Apparently Titan Equipment pissed off one of their customers and he traded in like 4 590's. I love that hoe! Did some work for a customer that had a 420F2 on a big job and we used the two machines side by side. I liked the front bucket on the CAT but the back end of the CASE is much better, in my opinion. Its fast and precise and damn that thing can lift. Everyone operator that has run that BH comes away impressed with it. Very dependable and very capable. Not perfect for sure, but that BH made a believer out of me. It is interesting, BH sales had been sliding for years, until there wasn't enough labor available to run a mini ex and loader. Now the sales have been increasing.
The comparison has been made many years, a backhoe is a Swiss Army Knife of earthmoving machines. That is close to true. I can't argue, an excavator of equal weight digs faster. The excavator is not self propelled in that it can travel 20 or faster MPH down a highway. Excavator then needs a truck & trailer if moving on the highway. Excavator is nearly helpless when material must be moved, backhoe is reasonably efficient. If the job is ground prep for a new hospital, or a new super highway, you won't see many backhoes. If the job is installing a generator beside a home, a backhoe is the best choice.
Case we're one of the first to have an integrated backhoe loader and not an attachment hoe for an Ag tractor. They had the first TLB with a factory warranty in the US. Massey Ferguson were also very early in backhoe loaders after having purchased Davis and Midwestern. ** UK claimed to have the first TLB. Both Case and ** were around 1957 if I recall. Case won a design award from Lincoln for the welded design of their backhoe loaders. JD we're a little later. JCB had an early TLB but it was only a prototype and not a production model.
Earliest backhoe I saw was a 1964? Case 530 Construction King. Guy made his living with it decades. Prior to that, were a truck mounted hydraulic excavator on a military 6x6, a Farmall M with a flimsy backhoe & trip bucket loader, a very few cable shovels. I don't believe I've ever seen a working steam shovel. In a rural area, big earthmoving was the domain of bulldozers until these. The first integrated backhoes seem pretty feeble now, but compared to digging by hand they were amazing.
I'm not an operator but it seems that having to reposition a backhoe while on a project would be a pain compared to an excavator.
It can be but if you need to dig a trench, move the spoils across the site and then backfill with stone from a stockpile the backhoe really shines. They have their place. Personally I prefer a mini and a CTL but you need 2 operators.
Dedicated digger pound for pound, an excavator is faster than a backhoe. An excavator spends much of its time on a trailer. I give two examples: I own land three miles away. I can drive the backhoe in air conditioned comfort in 10 minutes. I can't hook the trailer to the truck in 10 minutes, never mind load & chain it down. Unloading takes another 45 minutes. I would have to walk the excavator 1/2 mile, as the last hill is too steep for the unloaded truck towing trailer. I'd have to park truck & trailer at a turn out at the main highway, then worry about theft of chains. One project I did 10 miles from home. The task was simple, customer wanted a hole 15 x 15 x 5' deep, wanted the walls straight, ideally wider at bottom if soil would cooperate. He wanted a flat bottom suitable to pour concrete without forms. It'd be a base for a wind turbine. All the spoils from the hole were to be piled on top of a loading dock 100 yards away. I used the truck only to tow the trailer. Seven and a half hours from my door to my door again I was done. That included setting up a laser & flattening the bottom dead level by hand. Customer grumbled about the bill, he prefers to rent machines from a company 1.5 hours away. His rentals would be a mini excavator, and a compact track loader. Ignoring loading and unloading time, he would spend 12 hours on the highway, burn 42 gallons of diesel fuel. put 640 miles on his truck & trailer. He doesn't operate machines, his employees will try anything, but even they don't pretend to be operators. The mini he rents, he can transport behind his F350 won't reach the opposite side of this hole. This means an inexperienced operator tries to dig a flat sided hole he can't see. My old backhoe I had at the time reaches 23 feet. I can see where I dig on the other side of a 15' hole. I was also able to move the spoils from the site with one machine. My backhoe/loader carries 1.3 cubic yard, moves faster than a compact track loader. I removed the spoils MUCH faster than a CTL could with 1/2 yard bucket. I can reach higher to dump than a CTL, except a very rare high lift model. I believe he would have stretched this project into a week. His employee wouldn't dig the hole to his exacting specifications in a part day. He would pay two day rental for the mini. ight thereby combine two transport trips, return the excavator, pick up the CTL.
You just need to get used to it there is not much difference when you go pound for pound with a 308 or 85 against a 420 or 310 sl What is different is I can do everything with one machine and move across a job in no time with a backhoe Most backhoe operators can run an excavator decent enough most excavator operators lack the creativity to utilize a backhoe past about 40 percent of its ability you can climb a backhoe into places that an excavator may not go with out building a road across what ever the backhoe jumped they are awesome machines but take a good experienced backhoe operator to unlock its real potential
∆the above Case four grab the boom and Dipper with one hand & work the loader with the other and go hopping/pulling. 4/1,4wd & digmor right hands is an excellent tractor. Stuck using a Cat 279 & 306 wanting a backhoe wide open job no obstructions
The area I live is almost all hillside. A recent project we did, homeowner borrowed a 4 ton Kubota mini EX. The job included a large propane tank on a hillside. Mini was small, & reach was small. I was able to dig the 5 x 12 x 5' deep hole only by beginning on one end working backward. Placing the spoils up the hill from the hole forced me to stop a few times to move the pile. The machine was sitting way off level & I found it unpleasant to dig. It also bobbed around like it was a rubber duck in a bathtub. Finishing the end of the hole, I had to do blind as I couldn't see over the edge of the hole. Pile of sand was in the driveway 150 feet away, the tank 10-1/2 feet long weighed 1500? LBS. I drove my backhoe up that morning feeling it'd be handy. Size of the hole mean't reaching near 10' to the center of the hole to set the tank. The little mini would tip over reaching that far. Tank was backfilled with sand. Would have taken hours moving it up the hill with the mini, loader did it in minutes. Where the mini was sweet was backfilling the trench for the gas line. It had a four way blade. I could shave dirt off the grass leaving very little dirt to rake off. We hauled away 12 cubic yards of spoils. Would be a ridiculous job for an excavator, no big deal for backhoe.
First week first time on a cat 420F doing Site work installing drain pipe/di. Having to trench alongside the concrete pad got to the spot between the fire pipe stand and a pull box couldn't use the outriggers it was stable even fully extended 2' bucket off to the one side if it was a Case would be trying to flop around weight of the hoe they are special/different feel