That's what the boom on my late 70's 410 Deere sounds like. It only starts squeaking like this after working it hard for a few hours and the cylinder/fluid is pretty hot. Greasing the joints doesn't make the noise go away so I have to guess that the cylinder is making the noise. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!
I have actually heard that type of noise coming from cylinders on Case hoes. But I can't remember for sure if resealing them fixed the problem ..... If the noise has just started & wasn't there before, it may be a good idea to open the cyl & take a look. - Only after thorough lubing if all related pivot points of course, that may involve sliding pins out to be sure the grease is reaching all areas of the pins.
Thanks alrman....I know it made the noise last summer which was the first time I worked it hard since I have owned it. It makes the noise both extending and retracting. The weather has to be hot and the hoe in constant motion for more than 2 hours like in trenching. The cylinder gets hot enough that I don't want to touch it for more than a second or 2. I don't know if it's normal for cylinders to get hot like that.
sounds like the cyd oil cooler fins are dirty, and overheating when worked hard
I have a different explanation. The fibre wear ring in the cylinder has just enough space between the rod and the cylinder to fit tightly and keep the rod dead centre so as not to exert unwanted stress on the seals. BUT, when water gets in through the dust seal, it will rust the inside of the cylinder (rust adds thickness) and thus pushing the wear ring agains the rod. This adds friction that creates additional heat and causes the squeaking noise. I had this happen on a loader cylinder on my 1981 JD 410 loader cylinder. It travelled hard enough that the loader would twist (one arm raise before the other) as it went up and down. Install new seals and sand off all rust when doing the reseal job. If this is the problem, you will notice it will be hard to remove the gland from the rod.
Deon has a very good diagnosis. Happens more so on cylinders where the glands are pointing up to the sky. When this occurs, a pattern often appears on the cylinder rods, they are not shiny as normal.
not wanting to argue, but I've pulled some 'certain suspicioned' pins to see just what was going on...the caked on dry/dirt/grease mixture was quite a shock to see. Wire wheeling it took to remove it, now it greases so nice and was quiet for quite a while....recently it has gone back to it's old self waiting for me to pull it and clean it I suppose.
Thanks for all of the responses. Most of the cylinder and rod are hidden inside of the boom. The pin shown in the pic has a grease zerk on each side and grease flows out but that doesn't guarantee that it's getting to the rod end. If I pull the pin out I wonder how much of a pain it would be to get it back in as it looks like the cylinder would drop. Maybe block the cylinder up with wood? There is a small hole in the boom right above the pin that must serve some purpose?
I havn't seen that pin with grease zerks on the ends. Those ive seen had a zerk in the cylinder end and was accessible through the hole in the top of the boom. If you wish to remove and inspect it you can push in a pipe that is a bit smaller than the pin. Pushing or taping in the pipe will push out the pin. The pipe will keep the cylinder up while the pin is out. Install in reverse.
Wow....I feel like a moron. :duh An operators manual sure would come in handy. I guess my hoe must have 3 zerks to lube at that point.
OldandWorn, That pin looks like it would be a real problem to realign the boom with the cylinder barrel end. Pins are bad enough to reinstall even when the cylinder eye is accessible. The last time I repacked a boom cylinder it took me long time to get the base pin back in. Before it comes apart again I have an idea for a tool to make quick and simple. It would be a pin the same diameter and at least 1 1/2" longer as the one being removed. I will have it made from a piece of plain old carbon steel round stock.I don't have a lathe so I will need to have a machinist make it. It would be drilled and tapped with 1/8 NPT dead in the center on one end. The threads don't have to be very deep in the pin. The opposite end would be tapered so it would force the realignment of the four points of contact when it is reinstalled. A short piece of round stock (or 1/8" pipe) also threaded 1/8 NPT will enable the two pins to be bolted together. I am certain the soft pin will make the job immensely easier. For me the time and expense to get that the pin would well worth the effort.
Thanks for the idea Tinkerer. Hopefully it's just a matter of lubing a missed zerk. Although I'm finding slight inconsistencies from the parts manual and my hoe. Here is a good example and I can't imagine Deere not providing grease zerks at this very important point (#21 in the image). This is where the lower part of the boom attaches to the swing frame. My hoe doesn't have these and I cleaned and searched thinking they might have been broken off but there aren't even any holes. I lube these points with o-ring chain grease which sprays out thin and turns into grease after about 5 minutes. I know this isn't the source of the creaking noise but I thought I would point it out because it's so odd that these are missing.
Should I mention here that it is unwise to stick finger in hole where sudden or unexpected movement may not be the desired outcome to finger?
Yes oceanobob.....you should mention that. After all I deserve it.
This forum is the best for helping everyone out....we are all a lot better off to be reminded of all these such things such as using a bottle brush style wire-brush (or sim) to clean it's bushings' IDs and a thinner pin/bar to manage that ram, etc - than the contraire and its alternatives....
I doubt it is a pin because it shouldn't take two hours of use to start squealing. And I have to agree with Oceanobob that pins can be taking grease but still be loaded up with dirt or old grease. ISZ
Yeah I'm taking all of this info in ISZ. Being a lazy sort I will first try greasing a zerk if there is one in the hole.
any news on the squeaker? or are you fixing the motor (water pump) first?
Ahhmm.....getting old is a *****. Would you believe that I totally forgot about it. I happened to see the hole right as I was leaving today and I did what you told me not to do. There is something sticking up in there. I only used the hoe part to move some big rocks around and the loader for gravel. I didn't have a grease gun with me anyway and it's quite a schlep back to my property. I will grease it and be able to tell if it helped when I start backfilling trench up the hill.
The creaking noise is happening all the time now, even from a cold start. Pumped a lot of grease in there but it did not get rid of the noise. Some little critter had a nice comfortable bed in there.
So one would conclude: absolutely all likely places for zerks have been greased, yet the noise continues.... unchanged or perhaps less? I know there has been a lot of excellent discussion regarding the ram and I absolutely understand, although I remain thinking 'pin' even the forgotten fitting 'now greased' has changed nothing as to the sound....one more somewhat ugly possibility remains, could a bushing be seized on it's pin and/or spinning/slipping in it's mount?
Well guys, why not take a Vise-Grip or pipe wrench and try to turn the pin by gripping it on the end. That should tell us something.
I will get to the bottom of this, I just wish that I had time to mess with it more. I have a lot of trench open down a steep hill and that is what I'm focusing on at the moment. The DC/Baltimore area got hit on Tuesday with some of the hardest rain I have ever seen but Western Maryland may have been spared. I will know tomorrow when I fetch the water pump for repair. The pin idea is quick and easy so I will check that out Deon. No change in the loudness of the noise Bob except it happens all of the time now. Heck, it could even be the lower boom attachment joint that has no fittings. I always lube it with chain grease but I really never know if it's getting in there. The boom box.....haahaa...I made a funny....is like a big amplified speaker and maybe it just sounds like it's coming from that area although I'm pretty sure it is. I can also try some light penetrating oil on the lower joint just to see it it makes a difference in sound. Thanks for all of the ideas!!
Hey y'all I found the cause of the noise. While I was greasing the machine Saturday I turned the engine off and slowly let the boom down while standing at the rear. Like before, I could have sworn the noise was coming out of the boom box but it was also loud down at the lower boom pivot. I also had the crowd all the way out so I could get to some other fittings and when I lowered the boom to the ground I could see in the pivot area real well. I got a screwdriver and rag and sure enough I found the flush remains of 2 broken off grease fittings. I think there may be room in there for an easyout or I might have to cut one shorter. Anyway, the spray grease I have been using there must have been too thick to get into the lower boom joints so I tried some thiner stuff and the noise immediately went away. Thanks for everyone's input!!
Well, congratulations. Me, being originally from Mon Valley, Pennsylvania, completely understands the significance of not knowing the grease fitting was there in turn 'missing it' and all the while wondering just what the heck is that sound ... but ya know, the incessant pursuit of the noise brought you to this point .... can't wait to not hear the squeak once you pull out those old fittings and put some grease in those pins ... Good Job on not giving up on this.
Oh cool, I was thinking about buying a tract in that area while land hunting. As you can imagine there is a lot of slop in that joint and I can see it move close to 1/4" when I plant the bucket on the ground. I'm a restorer type person who likes to take old machinery apart down to the last nut and bolt and make them like new again and it's really bothering me having to operate such a worn out piece of equipment.