I'm a heavy equipment newbie, looking for a TLB for my farm. Although I have and maintain old tractors, this TLB thing is a big leap for me in technology and money. After two years of reading, looking and thinking, I feel pretty settled on finding a Case 580SE 4X4, or newer (but not much newer due to $$). I'm supposed to go look at one soon, and have been wondering about the "stall tests" I've read about here. While someone had kindly posted data about stall tests for a different model, it's still a little confusing to me. Could someone tell me in plain language what I should do for the stall tests on an '87 580SE 4X4? Also, when doing the "wheel spin test", should it be in 1st gear 4X4 mode, or 2X4? Just trying to find one that doesn't have me coming here fast asking how to fix it - or at least minimize the possibility of that happening! Thanks!
Hi Scottyboy, A Stall test checks 1) engine power 2) transmission/torque convertor drive (stall) 3) hydraulic pump loading. By comparing hydraulic load to transmission load, an under powered engine can be diagnosed. If transmission tests hi or low rpm at the engine & hydraulics are OK - then a fault is at transmission. Visa- versa if hyd stalls high or low, there is something to look for in the hyd. system. A combined test, is trans & hyd - at the same time -a full load test for the engine. An engine with a fuel blockage or dirty filters, usually, will not give the required rpm This thread is for a 580k, but may help Wheel spin test - is not an official test. In reality from a repair mans viewpoint, wheel spin kills transmissions - so try to operate as smooth as possible & minimise wheel spin as much as possible. If your wanting to test power by seeing wheel spin 2wd would be selected 1st or 2nd gear - into a pile of dirt. Hope this helps, we are here to help. :drinkup
I am almost ready to promote myself from newbie to greenhorn. I was already familiar with stall tests for automatic transmissions in cars and trucks. Mostly what I am looking for is slippage in the transmission because that is what is costly and cannot be worked around. Use the instructions on the attachment (580L) unless you can find one specific to your tractor. Generalize on the exact RPM settings. You have the same engine but a different transmission. As long as the engine loads down and doesn't run up to governor speed you know the transmission is grabbing at least some. This is a brutal test so don't play with it, strictly business. The hydraulic test, bucket curl, drops my RPMs 2-300rpm. My bucket will pull a 5 inch tree out of the ground, roots and all. Your results may vary depending on the type of tree and soil. Never tested for wheelspin, don't want my wheels to spin even in mud.
I said curl, the book says rollback, loader bucket. There is a chart in the service manual to interpret your results for high or low RPM results. Strictly hearsay, good question for more knowledgeable people, I have been told that people sometimes tinker with adjustments on equipment to try to make them pull better. More pressure, more rpm, etc, they think more is always better. If this is true I suspect it could affect these test results. Fits in with my experience, some people always think they can do better than the factory.
Thanks Thanks so much for the info. I haven't completely gotten my head around the "why" of the tests yet, but that will come with a few more readings and thinkings. Both of you fellows seem to discourage any spinning. I understand that when I'm spinning, I'm not doing work, only wasting fuel and tires. However, I've never been too concerned for the welfare of the equipment when I spin I've always considered it to just be digging holes I'm going to have to get out of and fill back in. I have a tendency to spin when loading from a pile. I've found that doing some curl and lift just prior to when I think I'll start spinning fills the bucket more efficiently. Am I on the right track? From the tone of the responses, it sounds like spinning is also bad for the equipment. Clue me in here how it could damage the equipment. Does anyone have the same chart from the case manual for the 580SE ? You guys are really kind to help a nub. I've been saving for this machine for some time now. Now I'm at the point of picking out the right one I really appreciate the guidance to help me find one that will likely be a good asset for the forseable future.
Scottyboy - The chart 'dirt' posted above is from a training manual not a service manual, so there is a difference. A 580E sheet probably does not exist. The 580E specs from service manual are High rpm - no load - 2370 trans stall - 2100 hyd stall - 2260 'combined' - there is no spec but it shouldn't go below 1500 Stall tests are usually carried out when problems are thought to exist & assist diagnosis. You will find by using 4wd to load - if on concrete or pavement use 2wd only - it will smooth out the whole loading operation. Wheel spin or bunny hop causes the drivetrain to go 'on load' & 'off load' + if only one wheel is spinning, the diff centre rotates at many more rpm than the axles. This causes unnessecary wear & long term abuse - will eventually cost the owner $$$$$. During operation of a loader, wheels WILL spin - a good operator will limit how much.
Thanks airman. I didn't realize my spinning was causing premature wear. We definately don't want that. I'll work to avoid the spin! I think I understand the reasons for the stall test results. Thanks for the numbers. Reading between the lines, I'm wondering....would you guys do the stall tests before buying to see if it's a pig in a poke?
Most Certainly!
Yes, if you don't do anything else, do the stall tests. Check for play in the pins and bushings and steering. Check the brakes and parking brake. Listen for noises, clunks, shifting from reverse to forward and back in 2wd and 4wd. Look at the breather. Check the fluids. If you don't know how to do these tests, ask, even ask the seller. If you don't buy this one you will know that much more when you look at the next one.
You're right on top of it again! Thanks Dirt and airman! I've been collecting all the tests recommended here and have a nice list to take with me. You're absolutely right about learning from checking. The first 580E I went to look at, I was 15 minutes later than the another guy, and missed the chance. However, I did spend about 15 minutes with the new owner asking about things. Since I respected he got there first and didn't try to horn in on his "find", he was hefpful and showed me a few things. Even though I missed what might have been a great deal, I learned from the opportunity.
There's some good information for newbie owners