I want to start the replacement of the streeing clutches, should i jack up the loader to do the job ? Does anyone have experence with this type of loader and the clutch brake system etc. . Thanks wosama931b.
i purchased a service manual on ebay, it is in great shape and what i need to know is there, but some stuff is unknown, i guess that will be the experence of the work i'll try to post some photo as i get back to it and let everyone know how its going. wosama.
hi everyone, wanted to catch up on this thread, after power washing the cat 4 times to try and get it clean i started to take it apart. The first thing i noticed was that the brake leaver pin hole was worn where it comes to the leaver to the brake. Also the carier bracket was loose, where the hyd. lines connect, and the rods were about all the way ajusted that connect to the brake pedal, Tomarrow i hope to remove the cover and proceed to remove the brake and clutch, I have been taking photos and hope to post them, so everyone can see what ever i run across, wosama931b.
Update on clutch repair/brake band replacement, I have reinstalled the left side, it was a job for me, my first Cat operation. What i found out was that i had wet clutch and a half worn out brake band that had been greased with moly, there was no oil in the case. It looked to me like they used a couple of tubes of grease on the brake, insted of putting in oil, like TO-3 or 4. I guess that i did the best i could with it, Ill know for sure when i get it back to running. My next step is the right side, now that i know halfway what iam doing it should be easer, Thank god for my magnet on a stick, Be sure you have one. I have a few photo that i will try and post. The left clutch was still in good shape, i took it to the Cat Part Dealer and got the opinion of them, there was an old guy there that had a lot of experance. The clutch itself requires some special tools to take apart, How i found out the deifference between the dry and wet clutch is the pronges that go in the groves in the brake drum, dry ones are wide and short triangle shape and the wet clutch is sharper with metal tips that are squire on the end, but its hard to tell unless you have oil in the case, otherwise you have to remove it, slide the brake drum off to see. More talk soon, wosama931b
Here are a couple photo, Try and send more later,
Hello, Getting to the clutch, Lots of stuff had to be removed, The left side was the weak side, I did get a small chain hoist to put it back in, getting the holes lined up was the hard part. I had the come along hooked to the track to move it so it would line up the holes, and a chain wraped around the top of the cab to hook up the small chain hoist. The right side looks good except for the leaver and needing some adjustment, the center compartment with the ring gear was full of oil and looked ok so i resealed it after cleaning the gasket surface, and taking care not to drop anything in it. i would like to thank Rigandig for his pointers, his information on the repair was a great help, i'am greatful for some good sound advice and knowledge, but i think he is a better wrench bender than i am.
I love threads like this....we need more pics!!!
I have a D3 79U series here. I don't think the wet clutches came until the C series. Your 931 looks like the same base tractor. I have been in the steering clutches of my D3 in the past. The photos of yours on here looks just like mine inside. THis is not a real bad job. Pull the seat, battery and battery pan as you have done is all that needs to be done for access to the clutch compartment covers. The brake pads for the brake bands are available separate from the bands. Saves lots of money. If you have to replace the fabric discs they are a lot of money. Should not be any moly grease or any other type of grease in there. Check the o rings on the actuating cylinders while you have it apart. Quick and easy, might as well put new ones in while you have it apart. When back together tighten up the brake band till snug than back of a half turn or so. There is also a procedure in the manual to adjust the brake band from the bottom of the compartment housing. Like I said. THese look like the dry clutches on my D3 79U series.
DON'T FILL THEM WITH OIL TILL YOU KNOW FOR SURE. If you do fill with oil and they are really the dry clutches the clutch discs will be ruined and you will be back at it again with a big bill for the clutch discs. Good luck with it.
Hello Greg, The Cat people said that i had wet clutch's, I had purchased dry clutch for it, but when i put the dry clutch up to the brake drum it did not match, that's when i went down to the cat parts dealer. From what i understand, the later model 931b had wet clutches, i think they must have changed about 87/88 year model. Also the number of fiber disk on the dry clutch are less than the wet disk, I though for sure that i had dry clutches, fooled me.
One way to check is dry clutches will have the brake band support screw under the steering clutch housings (under tractor)...oil clutch/brake do not have this feature. Lots of confusion over this as dry and wet options were used even in later models.
Thanks, Old Magnet, That explanes a lot, i do not have that adjustment screw, only drain plugs, i was wondering why i did not have the adjustment screw. One other thing that i wonder about is the oil, TO 3 or TO4, what is the difference and what should i use ?? Thanks.
The universal tractor transmission oils TO2, TO3 etc. are obsolete designations as of 1990 and have been replaced by TDTO (tractor drive train oils). Use the TDTO oil or equivalent with Cat's recommendation of SAE grade for your temperature conditions.
http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o563/samphoto931/Leaver008.jpg
As OM rightly points out the Cat factory specification is TDTO if you buy Cat oil, industry standard is now TO-4. Any leading brand oil that meets TO-4 spec will be good for a machine where the original O&M Manuals specifies TO-2.
Hey Nige, I was going over the operator manuel and it had TO 2 in it, should i use TO 4 or look for the TO 2 for the clutches. The book i have says TO 2 in the Transmission and clutches, I'am still not sure what is best, thanks for the help.
TO-4 specification is today's version of TO-2. IMO you'd be fine using TO-4 anywhere where the original manual says TO-2.
Thanks Nige, For a while i had no idea for sure, this my frist cat and i had never worked in tractor hyd. oils etc. before. I did take a look at the middle box, where the ring gear is, it was full up to the top with an inch. or so of the gear showing, i guess that is TO 4 too, it looks like gear oil 80-90 weight to me, I think its been a while sence it was changed out. I'am looking out for a good buy on TO 4, Plus i need to change trans. oil, more talk later.
Did you also pop each flange while you were in there and replace the seals on them? you need some press gear to do it and it would be worthwhile on an old banger like that. They are a great little workhorse though and there used to be so many of them in Sydney all owned by, well how do i say it with political corectness, non Australian born fellas who never had accounts with us and you always had to get cash out of em. 29Y that is a s/n i won,t forget.
Hello Gavin84w, No i did not do the seals, the ones on the inside seem to be ok, not sure about the outside to final drive, the cat guy here did not say anything about them, and no visual leakage. I'll cross my fingers on that, if it leaks i'll have to revisit the clutches, its a big learing curve for me, there always something. Looking at the system i don't think it has been to long/hours sence the clutches were replaced, the cat guy said very little wear on them, but no oil in the case, i guess they forgot to put the oil in, or someone though they were dry clutches.
Hi HEF, I had to re-adjust the brake and clutch on both sides, to much play in the system, the clutch lobe was not in the correct position, and the brake band was not tight enough, it took about two hours work. sam.
Sam, replace that worn lever, too worn to repair I think. When you get the brake linkage on tighten up the bands as tight as you can and back off one and a half turns. Pull back on the brake linkage and push on the lever. Adjust the rod as short as you can and get he pin to slide in, then lock it up. Now when you adjust the brakes all of your peddal free travel will be between the brake band and drum not in the linkage. If the band is too tight to get the proper peddal travel with dry clutches they will heat up and seize, that`s the good news. With wet clutches however they will walk through the brakes and keep going, chewing up the brake drum along the way. There is a quarter NPT plug on each side near the FD plug to check the steering clutch level. One side takes more oil than the other, forget which. Later Bob
Hi Bob/Ont, I replacer that lever when i installed the new brake band, left side. I started the cat today to CK the clutch and brake,s, it was to dark when i finished yesterday. It seems to be ok now, i don't think i have the brake to tight, i have it jacked up and testing everything, the pedals are where i want them to be, and the chutch feels and looks like its where it needs to be, when i get it back on the dirt i may have to adjust again. sam.
Sam try rolling it down a hill, hitting and releasing the brakes all the way down. That will tell if they are dragging. Later Bob
Sounds like where the piviot arm is mounted in the bottom of the case is not in the proper place.
Hi Bob, I have been mulling it over, i may move it back 1 click and see how that does. Thanks, sam.
hello wosama931b I have a 931b also series 25y-- it was manufactured in 1983 I have my left side tore apart and it looks like the brake band is shot. only way to get out is to remove clutch by your thread it seems that you did this a couple of years ago does the clutch and yoke all come out as one once all flange bolts are removed? it appears that the yoke is attached to the chassis where did you get your brake bands? any help would be great as I am not in a garage but in the middle of the woods-- literally
greg where can I purchase the brake pads that can be sold seperatly parky123
Try Off Road Equipment - www.offroadeq.com
anyone got any idea travel the clutch should go when it goes in and out got I all apart and decided to hook hydraulic to see piston go in and out only traveled 1/2 to 3/4" then 1/2" bolt stopped it I think this clutch is not travelling enough and wore my brakes out parky123
Hello HEF, I did re-adjust the brake's on my cat931b, the new brake band was wa too loose, the right side was not far off. i did the 9 clicks or 1.5 turns. and both pedals brake at about half way down. also the clutch can be looked at if the axcess cover in the floor is removed. On the old cat that i have, the clutch is not very usefull in 1st. gear, but in 2nd. and 3 rd. just a little push on the pedal and its very responsive. the one important thing is to make sure that the lobe on the clutch is engated when you push the pedal. That it , sam
Hello folks. New user here so I hope I am following the proper protocol. I am A new owner of a 931 cat crawler loader, serial 78U42665. Got it from an estate sale and all I know is that was given a pretty good once over before the sale. All the panels were removed, fluids changed, etc. The unit worked great when I test drove it for 5 minutes before buying it. Got it home and it works(steers and brakes) great until thoroughly warmed up. When it is good and warmed up, the steering clutches do not release when stepping on the individual left or right pedals. If I really stand on one of the brake pedals, the uint will turn but I can feel the brake band chatter a little because the steering clutch is still trying to drive that side. Stepping in the middle pedal seems to stall the converter well, it is just difficult to get it to turn. As I said, when first started the unit turns excellent. On an incline I can push the left and right pedals down about 3 -4 inches and the unit will stop driving so the clutches are releasing fine when cool. I do not have a tech manual to refer to. I think that the steering clutches are released with hydraulic pressure. Looking through the floor panel I can see the hydraulic valve move when I push the pedal down the first 3-4 inches. My only idea as to the problem would be that the o-rings in these hydraulic valves are dry and hard and hold well Enough to work when the oil is cold and thicker. When warmed up the o-rings leak enough to NOT apply enough oil pressure to release the clutches. I hope someone can advise me. Much appreciated!
Hello Msblack, I would ck too see if you have wet clutch or dry, also make sure that the TO-4 in the transmission is up to correct level. Also make sure that the slave cyl. is not loose. The clutch should start to move as soon as putting some pressure on the pedal, and the brake should start about half pedal. You will have to remove the battery to get in to adjust the clutch and brake. There should be a axcess to the brake adjustment in front of the slave cylinder Two bolts , remove the cover and adjust the rod, be careful not to drop your socket , i think its a 9/16 socket, get it tight, then back off 9 click or 1 1/2 turns. The clutch has a lobe that engages when you put pressure on the pedal, make sure that it is ready to start moving as soon as applying pressure. there is a small bearing on the pushrod, ck to maks sure its in good shape. If you read through the thread some of the photo's may help, sam.
931 steering clutch problem Wosama931b, Thanks for the quick reply and advice. I hope to tear into it in the next week to check all the things you mentioned. Actually I will start it in the next couple of days and verify fluid levels are good. Based on what I read in the entire thread, I believe I have dry clutches because I am sure that I saw the brake band adjustment on the underside of the clutch compartment. Thanks for the photo and steps for brake adjustment. I know that I have a lot more than .030" between the clutch actuator plunger and the brake pedal/lever. I am slightly confused as the steps indicate that the free travel "A" of the brake pedal should be 5-6"?? That seems excessive. I will add what I find out to this thread.
Wosama931b, Thanks again for the advice. It reminds me of what my dad taught me years ago...always start with the basics! I think I have the problem fixed and will update this thread with what I found. The trans fluid level was fine. If anything it is a little overfull. The fluid is slightly darker than the fluid in the final drive so I am probably due to change the trans fluid and clean the screen. The brake band adjusting screws (you were correct about them being 9/16") felt like they were locked up. Luckily I had enough 1/2" drive extensions to get it up where I could put a 2' breaker bar on it and got them to turn. I put a funnel on the top of the screws and ran a couple ounces of light oil on he top of the screw hoping it would run down the screw and lube the threads. It must have worked because after running the screw in and out a couple times it started to turn reasonably well. I adjusted the brakes and inspected the clutch slave cylinders. I backed off the brake band adjusting screws 2 1/2 turns from right. I have found a couple of steps to adjust these screws and some say back them off 1 1/2 turns and some say 2 1/2 turns. At only 1 1/2 turns, my brake pedals only depressed about 2" before applying. At 2 1/2 turns the brake pedals move about 3 1/2 inches before applying. I took the unit out and worked it for an hour or so. The brakes are very responsive and the unit steers like a dream! I drove the unit up an incline and when I depressed the brake pedals about 2 inches the clutches disengage and unit stopped pulling and even started to coast backwards. The unit worked very well even when the unit was completely warmed up. Problem solved. Thanks again for your advice and this forum!