Just had a Deere 310C Crowd cylinder resealed. No other repairs beside the seals. Shop charged $630 I'm looking to decide should I attempt the next cylinders or let a shop do them. The next to be done is the pair of swing cylinders. DYI means less time & work since the reseal will be done on the hoe instead of removing the cylinders. This machine is a farm hoe. Less than 50 hours a year of work. (I'm retired with more time than money, yet like the challenge of new mech work) I estimate the shop is charging $400 for their labor & equipment. I could buy some more tools for that. Is this a typical labor & material charge in your area ? ( please provide your area )
I redo my own for approx. $45 each
Seems expensive to me. Mike Bramel is a professional hydraulic rebuilder and is the one person I know of that can give you a definite answer to your question.Hopefully he will read your thread.
I took a stabilizer cylinder to the shop I couldn't get the gland nut loose on. They were charging $80 per hr with a 1 hour minimum. I went ahead and had them disassemble the unit which took them about 20 minutes total. At pickup I asked how they got the gland nut loose. They used a big pipe wrench with 2 men on an 8 ft cheater bar and a 3rd person holding the pipe wrench square with a large adjustable. They recently moved way off in another county so I spent half a day and half tank of gas on top of the 80 bucks. Next time I will invest that money in a larger pipe wrench and call my son in law and daughter to help. They said the total rebuild would have been around 250 plus parts and they would have to order seals from New Holland. So far I have been buying kits on ebay for half or less than dealer prices. There isn't much to them after you make or purchase the tools. I made a peg wrench that fits two of mine and I have a 3/4 drive set to get the piston bolts loose with.
Does sound high if the head wasn't tight, the rod wasn't polished, or the tube wasn't honed. If the cylinder rolled apart fairly well I wouldn't think more than $200 over parts Don't know about swing cylinders on a John Deere of that vintage but Case or New Holland are usually gravy
If you decide to do them yourself there are two tools I have, and I think are absolute must have. The rod seal installer and the adjustable gland nut wrench. Link to the installer ---> http://www.rocklinhydraulics.com/seal-installer-100.html Link to the gland nut wrech ---> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LARGE-Gland...892593?hash=item5447ebdc71:g:bz8AAOSwQItT7VMG
I "got a guy" that does them for 100.00 & you buy the parts.. {kit}
I'd do em for $100 up to a certain size. Bring me a D11 ripper cylinder and I'm gonna pull a number out of my ***!!! Those will kick your tail all over the field, shop or wherever you take on that biotch! I do have an 1-1/2" torque wrench now which makes life exponentially easier busting the piston nut loose!
Thanks for the replies fellows... Tinker... that seal installer is just the sort of thing I would need. A question: My cylinders have a "square" on the gland. Does it matter as the tool you graciously pointed to, have "round" pegs ? Or should I purchase a "hook spanner" http://www.rocklinhydraulics.com/adjustable-hook-spaner-set.html
I will offer another tip. On those hard yellow piston seals heat them in boiling water for a while to put them on. Then compress them with a large hose clamp. I put cardboard or cut some plastic to put between the hose clamp and the seal. Last one I rotated and re tightened the clamp several times before trying to cram it back in the cylinder. The first one I did before I learned this I had to pull the rod and piston out with my little John Deere 855 and put it back in the with tractor. The last one came out and went in by hand.
Yes it has pins for glands with holes in them. You need a spanner wrench for those swing cylinders. http://www.rocklinhydraulics.com/hydraulic-repair-tools.html may have the one you need. The video shows how easy it can be to install the seals.
That looks like a tight spot to get a spanner wrench in. You might have to pull those.
300 with aftermarket seals . However, those swing cylinders will give you a better idea of where the pricing came from. They can be difficult especially if the swing has been bottomed out hard.
HeavyEquipmentForums The "wrench" in post #7 is what you need to take those glands off. Much easier to leave those in place. The 410 etc are even more work to get loose. Any questions just ask. I'd send it to you, but it's too big for your cylinder.
Since the discussion has changed to how to do it... You do not unscrew the gland . Where you see to put the spanner is just a nut. Knock it loose with cold chisel or air hammer, then with hoses disconnected knock the gland into the barrel without damaging the threads on the gland until it just clears the retainer ring that is located on the id of the barrel , remove the retaining ring and pull the assembly out of the barrel. Make sure the the retaining ring had not rolled out the metal on its stop , if it has rolled that metal out it needs to be removed before pulling the assembly out or it may get stuck coming out.
I must be confused, that sure is a locknut on the gland. Maybe the older bigger ones had glands that unscrewed? I seem to remember a set screw... Do it Partsandservice's way, if you can't knock those locknuts loose, then you can cobble up a tool, but those should be easier than I thought. A blunt cold chisel with a three pound hammer, tap one notch, go around to the next one you can reach, keep going around until it's loose.
Delmer. I cant always remember which machine had which kind of cylinder. I know the kind of cylinder you are writing about. Those are not nearly as aggravating as the ones he has.
Lots of Deere cylinders are like that. Spin the nut off, knock the gland in and dig that pesky retaining ring out.
I have put kits in all most all the cylinders on my 416 for about 300 per cylinder including the cost of the kit. The only ones left to do are the two lift cylinders. 400$ per is fair enough , if they are done right , honed polished and flushed after resealing. Folks like Mike Bramel need to make a living and have big investments in tools.
I'm in SW missouri, I have a good hydraulic shop a hour drive away. If I purchase a "factory" seal kit for one of my crane's at $200, I figure it will double ($2-300) if I take it to the hydraulic shop to have them install it. If I have time I will do it myself, if I don't I will pay them to do it. I have about as much luck doing them myself as having the cylinder shop install them. They have a bench for removing really stubborn nuts that I don't . Typically the hydraulic shop charges time + material. If you have a really stubborn one to get apart, it costs more. If I have a question about the bill, I ask them, but time is money and they can't do it for free. My crane's sometimes have super heavy z type seals that are pretty $, I've had individual seals be over $100. At $600, they may have bought a "'factory" seal kit, then labor, rather than just matching the seals, which is much cheaper. In matching up, you have the risk of not having just the exact stuff, then if it has a issue, they're in trouble. So some shops only want to install a factory kit, then they mark up the dealer's already marked up rate and it can get spendy.
Got the crowd cylinder back. On the itemized bill, shop polished the Rod and polished "Seal Fits" (guessing grooves) Honed barrel. Parts: Rod and Piston seal kits, Replaced "Cast Iron Piston ring" Judging by the itemized price, They're aftermarket parts. Best Deere price for the kits I've found is double the billed price. The cylinder is back on the hoe and I'm happy. " Heavy equipment is a hand shovel in June. " For the swing cylinder pair, I'll try Delmer's method. If the nuts move, I'll continue and reseal them on the hoe. Tinker's seal twister will be a something my heirs will scratch their heads over wondering what it is. Otherwise, they come off and go to the shop. Thanks for all the advice and price comparisons.
Seems about right price if they had to polish the rod and hone the barrel, that's quite a bit more work than just slipping in seals. Glad its back working
Here is tip for buying on ebay. After applying your search term go to the drop down box and select the sort by lowest price. I bought one of these gland nut wrenches for $21 shipped. Seems a company that laser engraves had some mess ups they were selling. On my New Holland if I purchase a factory seal kit chances are at least part of it won't fit. When I did my stabilizers I had to machine the gland nut for the wiper seal supplied due to it being .050" larger than what it had in it and the bearing insert was too large so I had to reuse the old. The hydraulic shop I used said that was common with NH kits. I think they superseded the gland nut but no way to know without buying a kit for the different gland nut listed to see. That said they also could not match the more critical seals that came in the kit. If you have time to wait the ebay seller reliableaftermarketpartsinc has a good supply of generic kits that so far have matched the factory kit I bought once. In my case the ebay wait was less time than it would take to order a factory kit. It still had the same parts that did not fit so it was made to exact factory specs.
http://herculesus.com/pages.php?pageid=56# Above is the place to get the swing seal kit for $70.00. We use these guys for everything and if they don't have what you want they can make it. Sometimes we just send them a used kit in fair shape and they match it up and send us back as many as we need. I bought a wheel seal for a JLG 400S that cost about $250 from factory and they sold it to me for $35.00. The only thing about installing seals is put it back the way you found it. If you buy a large 3' pipe wrench and a few descent pics you can get it done. The seal installer tool makes it nice but you can use a pair of needle nose pliers as long as you're carefull. Good luck