I have a new to me 2004 Takeuchi TL130 that the left side drive will not move until the machine has warmed up for 10-15 minutes. I am new to the CTL game and am pretty sure it is a good practice to warm up the hydraulics before operating so it is not an issue right now. The question I have is this an indication of a bigger problem that I should address? Thanks in advance
I have a 2005 TL130 that has a similar issue. On mine, the machine will move forward as soon as it starts. The right track will reverse, but not the left. After it warms up 10-20 min the machine will start to run fine and you can go in reverse straight back. It has been this way for as long as I have owned it. Other than that the machine runs great, and there has been no other issues. I just let it warm up well.
how many hours? how does the hydraulic fluid look? perhaps do a hydraulic fluid change if you dont know when it was last changed. there is a main hydraulic filter in rear, and a smaller filter for the pilot controls under the seat/cab. you can buy filter kits on ebay for a good price. and i believe your machine just uses engine oil for the hydraulics. do you have a manual?
I do have a manual. 2300 hours on the machine. Fluid looks ok, but plan to change it when the weather allows.
Same here. I find if i put in high speed and move stick left and right it will start working within a minute of so. Did you determine root cause of problem?
Sounds like your pilot circuit oil might be a might thick...since pilot oil does not flow in great quantities it takes awhile to heat up. our weather in alberta -35 c this mourning caused NONE of my skidsteer functions to work for 20 mins...kinda normal for pilot controls..as long as main pump is not in cavitation.
Mine does it even in the summer... but it is worse when cold.
Check pilot/charge pump filter...and you may have wrong grade oil for your temps.
The slow response on cold weather may be due to strainer in inlet fitting on you left joystick being partially blocked. If you look from your the bottom you will see four hoses in cross figure, but then two go diagonally, one bigger then the rest of them, you need one right across from the biggest one. Take the hose out, take the fitting out and look inside for the strainer, clean it. If it’s plugged with black hard deposits that really hard to remove - check oil for water, if it’s jelled - time to replace hydraulic fluid. I would suggest cleaning hoses too, especially four that go to the pumps. The machine that starts to drive as soon as engine starts - need to look in for leaking spool inside the joystick!
When you decide to replace pilot circuit filter ( under the seat on the left side as you sitting in the seat bolted to the wall) don’t try to do it in place! Take hoses off, plug all holes, unscrew bolts that holds housing and replace filter in the vise or something like that. If you will try to do it in place - you will make a huge mess, frustrate the heck out of you and contaminate new filter with dirt!
Ha! Thanks for that, I'm an expert at getting dirt where it shouldn't be.
Well! I learned that one the hard way.
It’s a good machine BTW! At least you can stick your hands in some places!
I want to be sure to remember this.
With the hoses: the biggest going to tank - return The ones that comes from solenoid block - inlet The rest four going to pumps - controls.
OK, let me ask you this. Before I even get to the left side not moving i usually have no hydraulics at startup. I have to rev it about half way and I'll hear a click on the left side under the seat and then the hydraulics will start working. Any ideas?
That’s your safety ( as an safety bar ) solenoid valve: but problem is two fold: Not getting power to coil Valve spool sticking and needs more pressure to move. Sounds more like later one, but I would suggest confirming former first! And it’s sounds like you need some maintenance, how long since hydraulic oil and filters change?
Does this happens in summer time too?
Wait a minute! Is your drive works only in high speed?! That might be parking break and high speed hoses crossed! Keep in mind: when you will be looking at tha hoses on the motors - your motors are flipped!
If one side moves, but not the other, is that a Pilot filter issue and is there one filter for both sides or is their a Pilot filter for each hydraulic motor track side. On my machine, I can move both tracks forward on immediate start. Right track goes backwards right away. Left track needs long warm up times. Seems like a different issue than clogged filter. More like a sensor?
It may and may not. It all depends on “tiredness” of components. Sauer Danfoss series servo piston does not have springs on both sides, but it uses rod and double spring on one side, so that rod changes effective area of piston between forvard and reverse side. At normal pilot pressure it doesn’t matter because there’s plenty enough to move the piston to wherever! But as components get “tired” and pressure drops the weakest link is showing up! You can also hook up pressure gouges and run tests to know for sure.
If you want to test your pilot pressure at the pumps you gonna need 7/16 ORB adapter to whatever hose you connect to a gauge, or JIS BSBB hose ends sviwel run tees, at the charge pump as far as I remember is 5/16 ORB. Actually that machine has port test at almost every elbow!
Much less frequently No, it just seems to get the left side moving if i switch to high and move the stick back and forth quicker than if i leave in low.
Do the maintenance and check your fluid compatibility for the weather! Don’t forget about strainer in the joystick inlet fitting. In high speed your fluid just heats up quicker.
BTW, It's done it for as long as i've owned it ... 300 hours (2600 total). New fluid and filters does not seem to have any effect.
Then you need to dig deeper and run tests and find out what is going on!
Yea, when it warms up i'm going to check that screen and go from there.
Good deal!
I know this is a old post but did you ever figure out the problem? I have a TL140 with the same issues.
No. which track you have problem with?
Right side when you try to back up. It will eventually pop then back up and act funny the next couple times you back up. After that it will run fine all day.
Mine does that slightly when really cold. Feels like a valve is sticking. Let us know if you figure it out.
I never got mine fixed. It's been this way for years. I try and park it always facing where I can drive it forward around a bit to get the fluid hot. Otherwise I just start it and let it warm up at a little above idle for 15 min. If it's hot it never has an issue, if cold I back up at full power and see if I can get it to pop.
Strainer in the joystick inlet fitting? Where is that and what does it look like?
Take the adapter fitting from your joystick. Look inside and see if you have strainer in there. Check for obstructions. It looks like regular adapter from hose end to port, just have strainer in it.
Where would that be on this picture?
I’ll check it out tomorrow. THX
I checked this strainer on mine today... clean as a whistle.
I checked this today and it's clean as a whistle.
I also checked the strainer in both joystick adaptor fittings and they are clean as well. Still no movement in the left travel motor.
Going to have to tee in to pilot lines at the motor and see if you getting pressure there.
What is your charge pressure doing when you are trying to operate that motor?
I don’t have any gauges. Going to have to locate or purchase some. Where do i connect them? which T fitting? Is that where the pilot hose from each pilot control hooks to?
X1 and x2 or x11 and x 12 - depending which circuit you are testing, for pilot. It’s been many years, but I think hose 5 is coming back from charge filter. Also you can find PDF for Sauer Danfoss Series 42, there should be illustrations for all of the gauge port connections.
If it will be more comfortable for you, you can tee to pilot hoses at joystick. But that wouldn’t mean that you getting signal pressure all the way up to pump (in case if you have blockage in the hose(s).
You can take your readings straight from the servo piston test ports. There will be one on the top and one underneath of the machine. If I am not mistaken those are 7/16 ORB port connections. Included also diagram of the displacement control of the pump on your machine, that’s a simplest one Series 42 offers.
Awesome information.THX. I’ll look for that PDF. Any suggestions on a gauge set if i have to buy one
0-500 psi for pilot/charge And two ( or one). 0-5000/6000 psi for system circuit. I like STAUFF Test20 or Minimess set up For hoses.
Thanks again.
Cant read the files. they got cut off. can you post them full size?
Thank you
Azvacs, make any progress on this problem?
No, not yet. Broke down and purchased an entire new wiring harness. OUCH! In the process of installing it. Then we’ll see if I’m still having drive issues. Ill let you know what goes after that…
It was that bad? How much that cost you?
Yes, it was that bad. Ive posted pics on other threads here.. BAD! Every time i moved any wire, something else would happen. Wiggle a fuse and something would turn on. Move the harness and things would shut off and on and on and on. I pulled the old harness out and pulled it apart and tried to repair it. Reinstalled it but not much better. I think it had a lot of shorted out wires in it. Total harness was just over $1,000. It better work! Fingers crossed. There’s not much left that hasn’t been replaced as far as electrical goes.
OK, all electrical issues seem to be worked out other that the switches on the pilot controls. Rubber on the bottoms are all very stiff. Waiting for gauges to arrive to test hydraulic pressures
What was the cause of your problems that you just mentioned?
Do you mean the buttons on the control levers? They are all stiff and i cant tell if they are even working. I don’t even know what they are supposed to do. I never owned it when it worked. Just got it running. All i know is that one button is the horn and that worked once then stopped. HAHA
As far as the hydraulic issues go, I have no movement on the left travel motor. Gauges just arrived. I have to figure out how to hook them up, where, and what to test
You had trouble when lap bar harness was connected. I believe arm float is next to horn button. The buttons on left joystick are for auxiliary hydraulics, and the left trigger switch is for 2 speed.
Yes, thx. I found the operation manual. I just tested hydraulic pressure on P1 and got 0 psi in forward and just under 1000 in reverse with no track movement at at in either direction. Any thoughts?
Sorry. I'm not a hydraulic expert. But I believe there's separate pump for each drive. They both test same? How's the fluid look? Change the pilot filter under cab? What's the story with this machine? You buy it as a non runner?
Yes, i bought it and knew it had a drive issue. But i was hoping it was a guild and filter issue be cause of a lack of maintenance. The left drive would barely move. Now, left wont move at all. Its up on blocks, so i can run the tracks and engine while working on testing pressures. But I’m not really sure what I’m looking for. What is correct and what is not. I do believe you are correct, there seems to be a pump for each side. Everything else seemed to work hydraulically. Wiring was a mess with a bunch of components broken or missing, like solenoids, switches and jumper wires everywhere. ALL fluids and filter have been changed now. All wiring has been replaced. At this point, I got to much invested to stop now, plus its become a personal challenge. Who is our resident hydraulic expert?
Yes, i bought it and knew it had a drive issue. But i was hoping it was a guild and filter issue be cause of a lack of maintenance. The left drive would barely move. Now, left wont move at all. Its up on blocks, so i can run the tracks and engine while working on testing pressures. But I’m not really sure what I’m looking for. What is correct and what is not. I do believe you are correct, there seems to be a pump for each side. Everything else seemed to work hydraulically. Wiring was a mess with a bunch of components broken or missing, like solenoids, switches and jumper wires everywhere. ALL fluids and filter have been changed now. All wiring has been replaced. At this point, I got to much invested to stop now, plus its become a personal challenge. Who is our resident hydraulic expert?
Do you have a service manual? I was just looking thru a tl140 manual. It may be similar. You test p2?
Check the pilot pressure?
Yes, I have the service manual but my readings are 0 on P2 but the track is turning same thing on P1 but that track wont turn. Going to check the charge pressure now.
I’m getting strange readings. P1 0psi forward and 900 in reverse, P2 0 psi forward and 500 psi in reverse. Charge pressure 0 psi. Pilot test port (P3) gives 0 psi readings also. WTH? Am I doing something wrong here? All hydraulics seem to be working except for the left travel motor which i cant get any movement out of.
What is the pressure on port "C"?
0 psi. Which is the test port on the sub valve block.
"C" is from one of the gear pumps on the front of the hydrostat pumps. If "C" is zero, then the travel will not pressure up. If zero, either the gear pump is shot, or it's output is going dtraight through the hydrostat pumps...to tank.
How would I determine which one it is? And could that effect just one travel motor?
I'd like to see that pressure from port "C" before jumping to any conclusions. On my TL150 machines, I've never had to replace that gear pump. But, then again, I've never had travel issues. Some are @ over 10k hours.
I’ll get a video of it but don’t think I can upload it to this thread
You can, but you would have to upload it to YouTube first.
I’ll work on that
OK, somewhat of a correction. Changed gauge and got charge pressure of 240 at idle and 260 at high idle. Then pressure dropped to about 110 when joystick is moved
Working on video upload
Check out video on YouTube titled “Takeuchi TL130 charge pressure”
Check out video on YouTube titled “Takeuchi TL130 charge pressure”
That seems normal when looking at tl140 specs. I'd Imagine the 130 is same.
Alright, so if I'm watching (and reading the fuzzy gauge correctly), charge pressure drops more on certain functions, but looks to be 250psi or so at standby.
In all reality, both pumps and motors are suspect (worn excessively). The next step I'd take is measuring each motor's case drain, at rest and in motion. They should be the same volume at the same time interval. Without looking back through all the pages, were the filters changed AND cut open and examined? With same setup im my Case 1845C machines, I've never had any luck changing a just a drive motor when chasing a lazy drive.
Yes. All filters and fluids have been changed.
Yes, but were they dissected and examined?
Negative, but tank strainer looked like it had brass shavings on it.
That's not good. That's quite a bit of metal. Looks like you got some tearing down to do.
Amazing - 5 pages into the thread and only now are we seeing this photo.? It would be surprising if the pumps could even suck oil through a strainer in that state. Lord knows what the filter was like. Something, maybe more than one thing, in that system is fcuked right royally..........IMHO.
I kinda thought that, but i was keeping the faith.The filters did’nt look as bad as that strainer on visual inspection. LOL I’ve had so many threads on this and i included the pic of that strainer about a year ago. Luckily i kept the pic to show it again. If I could just pin point it the problem, i could fix it. I’ll keep trying
Because of the shared hydraulic oil, everything in the hydrostat side needs torn down and evaluated. And, the whole system needs cleaned.
Maybe start with the pumps. They are easier to take out than drives. Then open them up and look.
If the If the parking brake was not releasing, would that effect both sides?
After further review, it looks like i have the correct pressure coming out of the HST pump. When engaging the left drive, the engine loads and starts to bogg down like its under a heavy load but no left drive motor movement. Could it be a failure of the parking brake to release?
After further review, it looks like i have the correct pressure coming out of the HST pump. When engaging the left drive, the engine loads and starts to bogg down like its under a heavy load but no left drive motor movement. Could it be a failure of the parking brake to release?
As far as I'm aware, the brakes automatically release with the hydraulic pressure. Have you inspected the final drives? Changed the oil in them? Just to see that the gears are ok and not locked up?
That’s my next chore. The right drive is good but It just seems like that left drive is locked up and wont release. I’d like to inspect it without removing it completely if possible.
Drain the oil out of it. If you see metal flakes, then pop the cover off. Depending on the drive style, you may need a new oring for the cover.
Its a Daikin.
There were two style drives. Early versions had the cover held on by Snap ring i believe, then later the cover was bolted on. I've only disassembled the latter, and it takes a couple minutes to remove cover.
Well, i pulled the cover of and things appeared ok, so i pulled the drive off the machine and back side (hydraulic portion) off.. BAD NEWS! It was ground to a pulp. I don't think the swashplate and cylinder block are supposed to look like that! No wonder it was locked up and would'nt move...Trying to locate a shop to repair and having no luck. Looks like i'll have to get a new drive. OUCH!
At that point, you're probably better off with new drives.
This is closed loop circuit. That amount of debris most likely killed your pump also. You can isolate the pump and pressure test it to make sure.