Hey fellas, Im looking at a few dump trucks for sale and they both have cummins engines in them. One has a 350 cummins, and one has a 444 cummins. I know the n14 cummins are good, but I really dont know much about the 350 or the 444. What do you guys all know about them? Biased opinions are not really needed, I would prefer real experience based opinions, good and bad.
I don't know anything about the 444's, but the first company I worked for had all 350 Cummins and then 310 Cats for many years. I don't ever remember the mechanics complaining about them(the Cummins). I'm not sure the exact engine model# of our 350 Cummins though. I drove both, and definately preferred the Cats. My only reason is because the 310hp Cats would easily outpull the 350hp Cummins in the hills. Many of us in the company would head to and from Chicago together. We'de have a mix of both the Cummins and Cats in our convoy. Loaded the Cats would out accelerate the Cummins coming out of the toll booths, but empty it was the opposite. Don't know why, but the Cummins revved faster when not loaded.:beatsme Other than that minor performance difference, I've no other reason to not choose the 350 Cummins. Good luck in your choice.
Without a doubt The Cat's are going to outpull (pound for pound) the cummins, it's all in the torque rise and where each one makes their optimum power..That being said, the Cat's are going to be MUCH more expensive to repair. And that is definately something to consider these days. Just my opinion...
350 Cummins is bullet proof, 444 isn't. Buddy of mine had a 444, he could turn it up and get great power, but it spent more time down than running. I would go with the 350, LOTS cheaper to fix than Cat. We run a big cam 400 Cummins in ours and it is really great.
Those are good points. Fuel mileage might be another factor too, to consider, although I don't remember what we were getting with either, being only a company driver. One other thing I do remember now that was better about those Cummins, they didn't have the fuel problems our Cats had in the winter. Those earlier 3406 Cat's would shut down if you walked by them with an ice cream cone. I think cuz of low fuel return, and the lack of heat transferred back to the fuel. We were always having filter problems when it got cold.
Sweet fellas thanks for all the info. I have heard a few bad things about the 444 too. I was pretty much just asking about these two engines cause thats what I have found. I drive cat at work, and they are ok, wouldnt mind having one. We also have one truck with a n14 and that thing is awesome too, but hey I am starting out and cant be too picky from the start!
I know that 350 Cummins had a great reputation amongst truckers in Australia years back. (Big country, big fuel tanks and big miles). In fact, a large company called Bell Brothers, West Australia, placed an order with Mack for a large number of trucks and specified 350 Cummins and Fuller gearboxes in all. This was in the days when Mack made everything with their own brand and they held out for a while but eventually agreed so as to make the sale. Nowdays you can order a Mack with any drive-train combo you desire, like most other makes.
To be honest with you, I have driven both and found them both the be great engines. I have driven trucks with both old and new CAT and Cummins. Personally I think you should go with whichever will make your maintance work easiest. Some companies like CATs for their trucks because they have TONS of iron and get great service from CAT. Others have a Cummins dealer close to there shop and its easier to get Cummins stuff. Overall, I would say don't let the motor be too big of a factor, unless its not a CAT or a Cummins, then I would keep looking.
Cat C15's are expensive to repair. Any Cat is...but the newer ones are really expensive. The 444's had problems early on. I'm not sure if they were ever corrected or not. I don't know much about the newer Cummins engines... I've got a few friends with both series 60 Detroits and E model Cats who have had nothing but good things to say about them. If you can find a good BCII or III 400 Cummins and EPA issues are not a future problem, go for it. If you will be needing to update to an EPA compliant motor, look at the Detroits..
Rollover, do you know anyone running a 14 liter Detroit?
Yes I do..... Just got off the phone with him. It's in a Freightliner Classic and he pulls a flatbed in CA, AZ and NV. He's at 500K miles and has had no problems. It's rated at 550hp and he averages 5-6 mpg's Prior to this he had a 12.7 @ 480hp and averaged 6-7 mpg's.
Thanks, I've been wondering about them. Detroits are pretty darn good.
Ya know.... All engines are about the same. Things like geography, service and applications is what will make one manufacture stand out above the rest. As far as which one is better? There isn't any such thing as better in my book. That holds true for equipment (cat, case.....) trucks (Chevy, dodge, ford) and just about anything else you might buy, use or consume. It's all about what works for me.... What works for you.... What works for me might not work for the next guy. What works for me doesn't make it ant better than what works the next guy. Now I'm a Dodge Ram / Cummins owner. That doesn't mean that I think a Ram is better than a Ford. That's just what I ended up with. I always get a kick outa people who think that their truck/tractor/home/boot/bike....what ever it is that they have is better than anybody Else's. And anybody who has/does/uses/drives anything other than my better stuff is a wimp/moron/not as good as me... Me thinks that deep down inside.... those who always criticize/put down/belittle others... those who always put themselves high above everyone else are simply unsure/insecure with their own manhood.
Amen!!:notworthy I agree with everything you said, and anyone who doesn't is an idiot..................and probobly a Ford drivin' idiot at that!:ban kidding!!
Well said!
I have had many cummins in the past and love those old mechanical injected engines ,better than anything else out there ,I currently own a detroit 12.7 with 1.1 million untuoch ,can't get enough of that engine and a cat 3406 E rated at 475 but actual RWHP is 467 a monster but I rather have one of thse old cummins ,in fact Im willing to adapt an old big cam III or BCIV on that Pete when it comes time to rebuild .
The 444 is a good engine they had some problems but by now should be work out of it ,I have never driven one but my brother used to have one and so far everyone that has driven a 444 agrees that they can outrun anything out there .
In my opinion anything but the 444 the only people that have made any money on the ones that I have seen are the mechanics. The 350 would be ok cheap to fix but don't seem to last as long. Have a 12.7 detroit just turned over 1.4 million overhauled twice spends more time off road than on. Still a Cat fan though not so cheap but alot of dependable repair options available. Though in my experience cat is cheap compared to working on a cummins isx.
I drive a cat and have drove a detroit and a cummins. They all seem decent to me. I wish I could be more pickier, but for now its just going to be whatever I find that is decent for a good price! Thanks for all the info guys, its appreciated.
Have to agree with all posts here. one thing to add about the ntc engines is that the BC 1-2-&3 were good engines but the BC4 had some problems. Also the NTC would smoke like crazy in colder weather, really needs a wabasto heater for morning starts!
I have driven all the Cummins engines, most of the Cats, and the last driptriot I drove was a 6-71. I personally don't like the L10 Cummins. The Cat's were very good just very expensive to repair. The BCII & III 350 Cummins is 855 Cu inch and the 3406 Cat's are 893(?). They had a longer stroke and therefore made more torque on the low end. The Detroit.......I just added 2 gallons every morning and changed the filters once a month. For me the Cummins was OK on fuel and not too bad on the wallet for repairs. Go for the 350! Just have it checked out good and you should have many good years from her.
the 444 is bad, detroits, tended to leak oil some of even the 60 series did, i personally like cummins over cat
Cummins I have had all them and in my opinion the Big Cam 400, is the best. Of course we are talking about the older Cummins. They were good, strong and the cheapest to rebuild. I hear the N14 is OK. As stated before, Cat's are good(I have one 3406, but they are expensive to rebuild) I think 350 was used in the lower HP requirement trucks. I know I had one in a dump, with only a 14ft body. Great engine, but not strong as the 400. Dont know much about a Cummins 444, as stated I think I would stay away from it. It all amounts to what truck its in, rears, hauling weight, what kind of power do you need to do your work, better to have a little bigger engine and use the power less. I will leave you with this thought. I had a Int dump with a 16ft dump DT466 (250hp)engine, 9 speed LOLo, good truck, but dont be in a hurry, it did the same job as the other trucks, just a little slower
Can any of you cummins experts come close to ID'ing these two engines please? The first and second pics (same engine laying in the grass) had the tag on it and the third pic (engine in the machine) didn't have an ID tag on it. The only thing that jumped out at me was the intake manifolds on the driver side were different between the two engines. Is one more modern and or powerful than the other? http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o22/sy733/290M/080227_142706.jpg
the last one looks like a big cam 3 or 4 it has the STC control module on the left rear side the othe 1st and 2nd pictures I have no idea
engine ID I agree with busdrivernine, looks like a 400 in the last photo
Thanks guys. The first one says NT380 on the tag. All I can say is it's a very old motor that came in the Clark 290m scrapers from the factory. The second motor is actually installed in a 290M scraper and has rod knock. I guess they put a truck engine in it at some point. It did have big cam cast in the block.