Yair . . . ironoracle suggested we move this discussion here rather than continuing on the "lets see your ultimate service truck" thread. I expressed surprise that one man operations in the U.S. field service market could justify having elaborate service trucks with cranes and all the bells and whistles and who actually pays for the equipment. I could be wrong and (I hope some Aussie posters will set me straight) but over here I have yet to see even the Cat, Komatsu or any other dealer with bogey drive Pete or Kenworth with a Palfinger or Jib. Ironoracle replied with a well considered post stating he charged about the same hourly rate as a twenty ton excavator and was paid from the time he left home until he returned to base . . . around $130 to $150 an hour locally at the moment I suggest such a business would not work around here. Most owners and operators would not be prepared to pay those rates (which obviously are needed) to justify the cost of the equipment. For the most part they after the expertise and some tooling such as pullers for finals and so on. As I mentioned though a maintenance contract with a mine would be a different thing entirely. Considering we all run similar machinery I find the difference in attitude as to the best way to get things done quite interesting even though I don't have skin in the game anymore. It would be informative if other folks such as tct tractors in the U.K. could give their views on the subject. In no way am I being critical, I just find it an interesting topic. Cheers.
I agree with you to a point Scrub. When is it "Too Big" For me a F-550 is too small, once I get all my tooling and supplies in it, I am basically overweight. The crane, welder and compressor are essential for my job and like Ironoracle says, I don't get called much to do an oil change or o ring. I like a good heavy 3 ton truck, say a Freightliner FL70 or 80, now you have the GVW to pack all the tools you need and still have space for a cylinder, final drive or what ever. I also find that the bigger trucks are more reliable than a 550 and I cant make money if my truck is broken. Any thing bigger then that and I would not be able to go where I need to go. Rates will depend on what you and your "Truck" can do. The more tooling I have the more I can charge, to a point. But don't forget the fact that I am being called because someone can't figure out the problem or else they don't have what they need to repair it. Now about how big. There was a guy around my part of the world a few years ago that was running a big Kenworth never ever saw it go to work, only ever saw it drive around town while he was picking up parts to take back to the shop. With the price of diesel now, how could he even afford to start this monster let alone just use it as a parts runner. The thing was huge, walk in box, huge hiab crane, cant remember what else he had on it, all brand new. Havent seen him for a few years so maybe it was too much and he sold it off. Just didn't make sense here.
Ive never been stuck and I carry welder compressor , oxy fuels and tools and spares just depends on the law in your area i would love to have a lorry setup over here as I would carry and do alot more but I can do most things with this setup
WoW, I have been looking at the fancy outfits in the other tread with the Jaw open some, in the U.K. the Ford Transit is about the most common " Fitters Chariot" they are often on the edge of being over weight and need someone with a good brain to not get them stuck on our often raining days, I use a Land Rover (Custom Order) as I tend to work in the crap sites with no roads only Dump Truck ruts to dodge around on, to take all the toys every time to a site for me would be "No Use" as the customer just would not pay the coins as a start off, the crane needs are usualy met by tele handler or Excavator supplied by the customer, I near never change oil on anything as its not work I get asked to do, I have a Lincoln SAE 300 welder its weight is around 2 U.S. tons that I can tow to site if the Coins are good, otherwise it stays in its Kennel, the compressor thing is handy to have but again the customer would not pay me for its use, so I leave it at home to not wear out any, on Rim pulling I find the customer is happy to pay me well to do it as this always seems to be of interest to the customers and I am rappid at doing this style of work, plus the kit I use is as good as you will find, so I have a good name for this sort of work, but if I try to charge over the top for it this work would dry up, the people that own the equipment need to make a good return, I need to fit in with what the owner requires at a price he finds comfortable, so every day I basicly know the tooling i will need aand throw the stuff in the back for the job, I dont do little break-downs and flat battery stuff like general Hire Firms have. tctractors p.s. if those Big outfits were any good here I would have a Monster.
the only problem i have with the little guys is alot of times the ones ive personally used are to slow. its not there are bad techs but you cant compare having an onboard air system to knock everything out vs doing it by hand. i only have a skid loader and backhoe and if the boom has to be removed off my backhoe its costing me more money when you factor down time to have both my machines not working vs one of these guys come in knock everything off with impact guns and lift away weld repair while my other machine is still working and the backhoe gets repaired faster. id rather pay $100 an hour for 6 hrs vrs $50 for 10 when my machine is netting me $55 an hour in my pocket. that's just my 2 cents. i know the smaller outfits get the job done and even the bigger outfits have **** mechanics though, it happens
Scrub Puller good job starting a new thread! It looks as if we are already getting some good responses from both sides. I definitely agree with monster76 this is how most of my customers look at my service, they like to keep everything else going while I fix what is broken. And in regards to TCTractors having to work around telehandlers or excavators for lifting I did this for years, many times a bit scary! I didn't know how scary and unproductive it was until I got my first hydraulic crane on a service truck the ability to be the operator in control of the crane while lining things up is amazing and it seems like the equipment operators and I always had problems communicating. About the welder not always being with me just last Friday I was headed to a scheduled water pump install on a customers skidder on the way there the customers asks me to stop by and look at a problem he was having with a cylinder install (on his loader), I decided it needed a little heat to straighten some bent metal, while straightening things broke had to pull out the welder for 2 hours then, next I stopped at another machine helped install a hydraulic motor and a 400lb? bracket on the attachment out comes the crane! then finally after 5 hours of "unscheduled" I finally get to the water pump! that is just how things roll with my customers...................TIO
Yair . . . Good to see you here theironoracle . And thanks to all for an excellent response to a new thread. I don't so much as see this as "sides" but rather to different views as to what works in a given market. One of the issues here of course is population and distance. Australia in land area is similar in size to the Lower Forty Eight but we only have twenty three million people and we tend to look at things different . . . although things are changing. I would also suggest that the cost to set up an elaborate service rig in the U.S. would be a fraction of what it is here and of course with current fuel costs it will be much cheaper to run. Just going O/T for a moment. One of the ways to make lifting and fitting components with improvised cranes is to use a suitably rated chain block between the lifter and the load. Even with a crane I always did this when installing engines and such like. Much easier for the fitters on the job to give that bees-d1ck rather than trying to give the crane operator the message that you want a couple of mils . . . particularly relevant when working on boats with the crane up on the wharf and the engine room way below. Cheers.
I've said it before...if we (including situations) were all the same, we'd all sit down and eat the exact same thing for supper at night. The fact is, things are different. As has been mentioned, the type of work you do, the terrain you're required to drive, the type of machines that you work on, et cetera, it's not a "one size fits all" world. Myself, in what I do, I work on both customer machines and our rental machines in the field. And in most cases, as moster76 pointed out, when a customer has a machine down on site, whether their own or a rental of ours, they're less concerned about the cost of my truck and far more concerned about the loss of productivity while that machine is down. To that extent, more than once I've seen the joy on the straw boss's face when in relatively short order, with all the stuff I carry on my truck, I have that machine up and running again. I've worked out of smaller, less organized and stocked, vehicles, but a trade off by working small is typically efficiency and speed, things the customer sees as dollar signs. Compressor and air tools definitely speed up a task. Air hoses, welding cables, torch hoses, grease pump hoses, and hyd oil hoses are all on a reel, quick to pull out and stow, time is money. Every thing is stowed in an organized manner, don't have to unload the truck bins to get to a specific supply box, organization and efficiency in layout = speed when getting the work done. As for the crane, sure, a savy wrench bender will figure out how to do a task using the resource of his mind, a good mechanic can typically figure out a way to do something with what he's got to work with. In my experience, when I pull up to a sewer line crew that has a machine down, they're busy with stuff, they want that machine fixed, and for me to pull a working excavator off their production line is definitely not part of their plan. And even if they didn't mind, I have to go ask, they have to agree, "sure, he'll be done on that dig in another 15 (45 really) minutes". Meanwhile, here I wait, needing to pull the slew motor. Again, it's far more efficient, time wise, for me to simply swing my crane around and get it done. Additionally, I'm a small frame man, I'm not interested in a wrestling match with a hyd motor, pump, or chisel for a 10K hyd breaker, I'm happy to have the crane for the work I have to do.
Scrub Puller, the sides I was referring to were "the customer" like monster76 and "the mechanic" like tct and myself. Curious how much of that $130-$150 hr does a good operator get? worn out wrench I agree with the "550" being to small I tried that size because I thought I really needed 4x4 but after 2 years and being constantly overloaded, I purchased a 26,000gvw (lbs) truck with only rear wheel drive and soon found out the 4x4 was far from necessary with good sipped tires on packed snow and ice the rear wheel drive only truck is totally safe to drive and when the going gets deep it actually gets around better with chains on than the 4x4 did in 4x4 with chains on the rear, if it gets to bad they can build a road for me or pull me..................TIO
I use multiple service trucks of different sizes. The half ton pickup with a tool box and torpedo air compressor for the small jobs and the truck with the IMT is not new and stays in the staple till needed. I find when you show to every job with everything you need for any job you are just toting most of the weight up and down the road. The mid range trucks tote tool boxes and larger air compressor and/or welder. Half ton truck and three quarter tons are all set up so they can quickly be rearranged for a particular job or to swap over in the event of a mechanical failure with a truck. The key getting the jobs is to be ready to go. Someone else will pick up the job when your ride is down. Also the spare must be maintained or you don't have a spare when you need it just two broke down rigs. I have good trucks but prefer to repair them as they get older rather than purchasing new.
Just to throw another variable in here, "I DON'T HAVE A SHOP" I operate first and foremost as a mobile service, I do have a garage at my house which I can use to store occasionally used tools only about 50sqft is available for that. why do I operate like this? because I spent 11 years in a shop and learned to hate going to the same place everyday. So then that being said I would prefer and must take the $100,000 that would go in a shop and put that into a service truck to store and secure all of my tools. I probably only spend about 200hrs a year in a shop when I am doing something like engine or tranny overhauls................TIO
Yair . . . As I have mentioned it's good to get a bit of good informative discussion going. As Willie59 has mentioned a lot of situations are different. I had a mate with a nice little repair business working out of a smallish Western town. He mostly worked for small contractors and stations (ranches). It was not uncommon to have to travel 300 miles to a job. He refined his outfit to a quick detach service body on a Toyota Landcruiser one ton tray back with a tandem trailer if necessary with the 400 amp Hobart and big compressor. If on site for awhile he jacked off the body leaving the Toyota light so he can go and wallop a bit of bacon or catch a yellow belly in the water hole . . . it goes without saying that he camped out on the job. He got crook and sold out in 2010 and, at that stage was on ninety bucks an hour for hours worked. For lifts he used a station loader if available or a tripod made from three inch aluminium pipe which racked up on the trailer. . . properly built and set up a tripod is a very handy piece of gear. Theironoracle Around here I believe twenty ton class excavator operators are on twenty five to thirty dollars on general contracting, a bit more in the mines. Cheers.
And therein lies one of the variables of the differences in kit set up. If I continually had to work within a 300 mile radius, I would re-think the kit I worked with, I would inquire with detail what the issue with the sick machine is in order to determine what to load/unload from my "road warrior" chariot, umm, don't need this R134A tank or gauges for this repair, don't need this 10 ton jack... My radius is more in the range of 100 miles, mostly far less than that, on occasion far more. But given my radius, it works better for my to have the "mobile shop" as ironoracle describes.
I think willie said it best its ALL different wherever you go!!! I like having everything on the truck to fix the unexpected failure. I show up to fix something the boss sees my truck comes over "while you are here I need you to look at this also" it never fails when you are miles from the nearest parts/supply house... hope its on the truck as far as the crane goes on the truck its the only thing I will never give up on any truck I ever have again!!! I will do without ac first........ well maybe NOT!!! lol
Like "TheIronOracle" I do not have a shop either, I work out of my truck everyday. I drive a 1988 Ford L8000 with an enclosed service box. There are days when a crane would be nice and the older I get the nicer it sounds. I do have a boom truck that I can use if I need to. Recently I started looking at the possibility of going with a bit smaller truck, like an F550 size. I talked to guys who have this size truck and they get approx. 12-14 MPG, I get 8 MPG. I checked tire costs, 19.5" tires are basically the same cost as 22.5" tires. As I continued checking, it didn't take to long to figure out the operating costs of a smaller truck are about the same as I now have. ( I rarely go more than 50 miles from home) And what's the cost of a newer F550 with a crane and compressor ect. ? Having a larger, well stocked truck has brought me almost as much work as what my mechanical abilities and experience has. I frquently get called by other mechanics ect. just because they know I'll likely have the needed tools ect. with me to do the job more effeciently than they can. And yes, it's ALL different wherever you go.
I will start this post by saying that I am a long time lurker and this thread has finally made me sign up. I am a mobile mechanic in Australia working on Forestry and Earthmoving gear. I am a one man band that just works out of home, although I do have a couple of customers that let me use their workshops for some of my own jobs. I currently work out of a Isuzu NPR400. This is a fairly common size service truck here in Aus with most or the major equipment dealers using this size vehicle (approx 7.5t gvm). I would say that this is a fairly good size (light) truck to have as there is usually enough room for the things that you need, although as wille points out having everything organised is a must. However I am looking at upgrading the truck to a larger (10t gvm) truck to try and get more comfort and speed when travelling. I count a crane as a must when working on gear of any decent size, I am still a young fella but I only have 1 body and I need to look after it as I want to be doing this job for a long time. Air Compressors are a good time saver and can also save alot of hard work by not having to crack everything of with a bit of pipe. Welders are optional but they do lead you into more work if you are able to repair things on site. I do have all 3. I find it hard to leave any tools at home because like what was said earlier, the job you set out to do isnt always the job that you end up doing. I also have a problem with always buying more tools so that gets me into trouble with trying to keep my truck organised. When I look at some of the trucks in the ultimate service truck thread I do get a bit jealous. However they would to expensive to try and set one up here. I do think that the medium duty paccer products (KW T300 & Pete 336 I think) would be a good size but not readily available here. I have worked out of a 1t ute (Nissan Patrol) and struggled as there wasnt enough space and I was overloaded without carry any parts or components. Sorry for rambling on Gav
Yair . . . Not rambling on biggav . that's interesting stuff you're contributing to the discussion, welcome to the forum. Cheers
Great thread Scrub and alot of good points & ideas as we all work in different situations.In my case I started out as a equipment mechanic/welder so I new how important field repair was from the beginning. Set up my first truck in 1992 & never looked back. 1974 Ford F-350 with welder,air,& crane. Not that fancy but got the job done. HeavyEquipmentForums Later we moved in to excavating & construction work and used the service rigg to repair my own equipment in the field. Funny thing I noticed is the phone kept ringging for service calls . Once you set up one of these riggs & get a few years under your belt its as if you become a "Made Man" in the equipment repair Mofia. They never let you out ........... But thats cool and it helps pay bills plus I enjoy Field repair. For most jobs the welder,air, & crane are a must .Most of my customers can take care of smaller tasks with hand tools.I get called when there is a loud bang then there truck stops moving, or welding in field. It's never boring.
excellent thread. I work out of a truck 95% of the time so I have to carry all my tools with me. as mentioned before I never know what my day will entail when I leave the house. my radius is about 120 miles covering 2-3 different jobsites. I work out of an f-650 and alot of days I wish it was bigger. don't know how I ever got by with a 550.
I found this article online and thought that it had some very good points so thought that I would include a link. http://www.vannattabros.com/truck38.html Skim down till you get here, Selection criteria for Mechanics tool truck or Service Truck the rest is a good read but I like this part the best Biggav, welcome to the forum
I've got a little extra change in my pocket this week so I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents. I've been in every service truck size range possible from a pickup truck with a saddle box all the way up to a Mini Pete. The way I always looked at it was if you ran out of room on a truck you did 1 of 2 things. You cleaned out the truck and only really kept which you really used often (mind you this is not like me because I'm the one that says ehhhh I'll need that one day) or you add a side box or something if you've got the room to do so. If you're a guy like TomV that does everything and anything on a day to day basis then yea having everything you could ever need is sweet. If you just want to ride around and do P.M. services you could get away with probably a 3/4 ton or 1 ton with a utility body and a oil tank set up or just some old 55 gal drums. I dont work out of a truck anymore but just recently I got another snap on tool box because I started going through drawer slides left and right. All together my little set up is 30"deep, 6 feet high, and about 12 feet long and every drawer now is nice and organized. But I've got bars, pipes, chains, com-a-longs cables, all kinds of odds and ends on my bench. Plus I left a lot of stuff at my parents place for storage. Lately I've been kinda tossing around the idea of buying a 1ton flatbed and turning it into a service truck. Just a welder, aircompressor, little torch, and a few toolboxes to do side work on the weekends and afternoon. Probably even going to do it legit and be a LLC company. Pretty much all i'm planning on doing is oil changes, light welding/fabrication, oil leaks, brake jobs, basically what I feel I can handle to where it wont interfere with my day job.
Back in the 70s company "water and sewer all over the US + strip and underground mining" I was with had me in a 3/4 ton pickup with pickup bed with toolboxes on and in bed over weighted with no comp and a thiefs dream. After a couple of years they got us some 1 tons with compressors and cranes and welders 4 wheel drive and way way overweighted. Several years later and another water sewer contractor we were using 2 1/2 tons and they were just at the limits. Then when I decided to try it on my own I went back to a 1 ton with no crane and a welder Id pull around when "when" I new I was going to need it and did without or had to go back and get it when I didn't have it, and like said above had to wait on something to lift with. Did this for a couple of years and decided my back was worth it or I wasn't going to be able to after many more years and by then I could afford it. Picked up a 2 1/2 ton redone the bed the way I wanted added crane and comp. and welder but I work on a lot of cranes and large equipment and needed a bigger crane but the cranes that you can use on that size truck with the truck already loaded with tools makes the truck to heavy. SO I decided to build what I wanted yes its big and no you cant go thru the drive thru but if I need to pull a engine out of a 375 kom. no problem and if I need to pull a gearbox or drumshaft out of a crane that you have to get out from way over and then get it way high to get it out no problem. Another thing is its all done safely and you don't have to cut corners "like working under a hoe or loader bucket" and when your on the road you have a engine and trans that are big enough and not pulling the hell out of it and there is another axle with 4 more tires and 2 more brakes + jake brake to help carry and stop it "really comes in handy in the mountains". The whole truck lasts longer and less wear and tear on tires and brakes and drive train. AC and air ride and seat are for me. I run in several states and fill way more relaxed in this going up and down the road than any other mechanics truck Ive ever been in. I charge the same per mile rate as the dealers but my labor rate is half what they charge here in Georgia and when I went to the bigger truck the rates did not change. Starts at the shop and ends when I get back or at motel. The trucks for me just as much as the customer. I don't like getting to a job and not have what I want when I want it this way Ive got it when I need it and it never fails that while your here----------------.
Couple more things I don't have to dig and hunt for that tool or part I know rite where its at also I have a trailer with hyd winch for small dead stuff I want to haul, couple weeks ago we needed to move our 220 kom from farm to chirt pitt and back again loaded on trailer and hauled it myself with mechanics truck.
Times are a changing! The first dealer I worked for had just gotten out of pickups and went to the then big rig of an F350 with gas power and four speed tranny. A 1,500 pound max lift boom, no welder or compressor and if you didn't torque the wheels every week they tended to pass you on the freeway when you were slowing down. I worked out of a hand me down for years and did just fine on construction and small mining gear. Went back to a dealer later on and now the trucks were super duty with a 7.3 that couldn't pull a duck out of a pond and a 3 ton electric Autocrane. The bigger crane was nice and I didn't mind the slow speed because I hated to deal with operators and crew whining about their lost time. We had 8 CFM compressors that were only good for blowing rain water off a part and might run a 1/2" gun for twenty seconds at a time. My last true service truck had a 6 ton crane, 28 CFM compressor and weighed 2,000 pounds more than the gross rating on the truck. Loved the box and crane but hated the brakes and tires. It was nice the wheels didn't pass you anymore but using other vehicles to stop you in a panic really sucks. Those people you tap the back of are really grumpy once they get over being dizzy. Now days I see the service trucks most of the dealers are driving are two ton or larger with a ten ton lift, huge PTO drive compressor and a minimum of 300 amp welder. I have no taste for long term debt any more so went the other way. Got good at hydraulics and electrical troubleshooting and put together kits for that. Lot less expensive on my side, customer has already thrown up their hands when they call and when you are done they are more than happy to pay. I worked from a Toyota 4x4 for years. I'm starting to feel all those years with little to no lifting equipment, hard pulling and the occasional loss of skin with the associated scarring to prove it. If you are going to do the big work you need to have the big rig to make earning money as easy as possible and make it last as long as possible. Your only other option is to get good at some specialty that few others wish to do and go light. Last big job I did was a slewing bearing in a PC300-5. Just the thought of doing that job again makes my joints ache.
John c I know what you mean about the lug nuts back in the late 70s one of the mechanics had a c30 chev that kept breaking axles we found that the banjo housing was bent he went by a scrap yard and found a c50 2speed rear axle assembly and with a little tlc he had a c30 454 4 speed truck with 2 speed rear and flared fenders on the bed.
At age 54 you just made my joints ache. Arggghhh.
Willie, this is an interesting topic, firstly I seem to have managed to have you speaking my odd verbs "Chariot" after a few more pages we might be from the same "Parish" if things keep up ?? anyhow 1 thing is for sure big trucks sucking fuel is a sure way to go Skint in the U.K. I work without any distance limit and weekly have jobs 200 to 300 mile round trips with the Boot hard down, I have no Workshop or Yard as things break down in Fields etc so thats were I tend to fix them, I am getting near 58 years old but things seem to get easier the longer I do this sort of work, my job for tommorow is to swap over a set of Tracks,segments and re-seal the Track adjusters on a Komatsu D65E-14? Dozer by myself, I am not expecting an use of any other equipment and the owner expects it to be done by dinner time (No Hope) but I can do it without any other machinery, I dont get asked to fix this machine and can you fix that digger or Cement mixer and can you weld this to that in a morning, like you would on general Hire kit, the jobs I get are usualy Crap and in the Muck but I can cope with this sort of work, I could not cope with loads of small jobs in a day and driving around in a Truck like a mobile Store, it would just not be the sort of work I could put up with, I like to throw the kit needed for the job in my truck and get the job done. tctractors
Once in awile I will just take the Jeep & throw in the " needed kit" as tctractors described. Wish I had a Land Rover... Those riggs are cool:thumbsup. Had a service call this afternoon , customer had some small issues on a Mack tractor .The Mack was setting in his shop and he needed to get back to shelling corn so I threw in a few tools & went. One handy rigg for myself is what I call the "Grab & Go" bucket. ( 5 gal. bucket tool bag) http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200493534_200493534 It normally sets in the wrecker but is easy to grab when needed. I keep wrenches & sockets up to 1 1/4 inch, screwdrivers, & ect. Wieghs in at about 45 lbs.
I was running some cost numbers again in regards to big service trucks. I reminded myself again that the cost of a very large service truck is somewhere around the $10-15/hr mark. All that I am trying to say here is one by the hour this doesn't seem so bad, two the difference between say a 550 size truck and a kenworth size truck is not much different either. Now in order to get numbers this low you must bill 2000 hrs a year and bill every hour you work, you can't not charge for travel! When you look at it like this it seems a little more feasible to have "a big chariot"...just an observation......probably going to create a little more discussion...............TIO
All that talk I did about older trucks and spares,,,, the 550 went down today and it is the only one with a crane. Here comes the mad dash to get it back on the road!
Yair . . . theironoracle . Curious about the ten to fifteen dollar number mate . . . what sort of miles do you do a year? Cheers.
I've never seen anyone charge out service trucks in any way except by the mile. Hourly rate is for the mechanic who gets paid from point to point. Most of the dealers in this area don't differentiate between a super duty and a Kenworth. I've see a lot of guys not charge out miscellaneous hardware which includes nuts, bolts, washers, consumables like welding rod, torch gasses, ether, penetrating oil, rags and so on. When I was in a service truck for the Komatsu dealer I did between 15 and 20,000 miles a year. Back in those days the charge was a dollar a mile. A chassis was about $25,000 and we swapped boxes from old to new. Last I checked dealers today are charging upwards of $2.50 per mile and new trucks mean all new everything. An F550 with the works I'm guessing is north of $65,000 and a fully equipped KW with all the bells and whistles will run well over $100K. From my point of view to afford the truck you better have a way to sleep in it.
John C. made a very good point. I just charge buy the hour and also dont differentiate between truck or rigg size when on a job as everything has it's place.Use bigg riggs for big jobs & Jump in the pickup for small jobs. In the end it dont cost mutch different if im driving a Kenworth W900 or a Jeep depending on what the task is.
Scrubpuller, I sold as an item 11,750 miles last year, there would have been a few more sold in quotes not itemized out, and a few more miles on the truck for personal stuff i.e. going to the kids games and stuff on the way home from work and getting groceries. as far as the 10-15 dollars a new kenworth service truck in the u.s. is currently 150,000 after 5 years it is still worth 100,000 so 50,000 divided by 10,000 hrs (5years x 2000/hrs year) is $5 per hour, then of course you have to change oil, put tires on, interest, and pay insurance on it you shouldn't have much else in the first five years...and you add it all together and wah-lah its 10-15/hr so when your charging $80-120/hr or whatever it fits in there pretty easy...the math is vague with lots of holes but plug them however you want and you will end up with the same result. and yes I did leave out the fuel but that is covered by the mileage charge, and yes you do have to pay for the entire service truck in that five years, but that is a payment not a cost..........TIO
Yair . . . John C. That puts things a bit into perspective. A basic Toyota Landcruiser one ton cab and chassis . . . the general weapon of choice . . . will set you back around sixty grand over here. With a bit of a haggle you can generally get a body thrown in and sometimes a thousand dollar towbar. Cheers,
scrub puller the north of 65,000 is actually north of 90,000, in the post we left (ultimate service truck) to come here I posted a couple pics of my first service truck (comparable to a ford 550) it was 87,000 as shown in 2008 and my current service truck the larger international........TIO
Whats the difference between a shop and a 33,000 gvw service truck between purchase cost is there that much difference? I run heavy haul truck, try to take care of shop and do onsite service when we need it but if there is trucking to do the boss normally would rather me make income from the truck and pay the dealer to come out and fix it even if it is a 100 bucks and hour!
still learn'n, if your talking about highway truck repair then yes it should be done in a shop even if it needs to be towed (typically) where a service truck is most valuable is directly related to 1 how many trips the service truck has to take and 2 how large the piece of equipment is! Service truck work is 90% repair not overhaul, you go out and install say a hydraulic pump, engine, cylinder, tranny, on and on, we rarely go out and do something like an inframe, 90% of my service calls are less than 8 hours of billed time. now another way to think of this is from strictly a heavy construction point of view with a company that has like 50 plus employees, as i see it companies of this size are doing many projects over a few states there shop is usually a place that is a good 100 miles from the equipment that the equipment is likely to see once a year a mechanic will be a 100 miles north one day a 100 south the next a 100 miles west the next and i don't know anyone that would ever travel east lol!!! everything has its place and i for one am very glad i don't have to see the same shop everyday TG!! and the difference between the price of a "shop" and 33kgvw truck is zero the opportunity to work out of the service truck is "priceless"......TIO
I'm not so sure about that statement that hwy trucks should be fixed in a shop even if it has to be towed. How would it make sense to send a $300 wrecker out to tow a truck to the shop for a broken fan belt when a road service mechanic could fix it in less time than it takes to prepare the truck for towing?
like I said (typically) I didn't say all of the time or everytime! my point was in reference to the comparison of the shop work versus the 33,000 gvw truck in this case they cost nearly the same! the point being its all about economics everything has its place.....TIO
And I'll add this to your case TIO. A truck broke down on road, sure, send a wrecker, pull the driveshaft, and drag it to shop, X amount of dollars. On the other hand, a dead machine, first have to dispatch a low boy trucker. Then figure out a way to get the dead machine on the trailer. Then get the total bill for haul and load/offload dead machine from low deck. Pfffftttt, to heck with that, send the 33,000 gvw mobile shop. :drinkup
TIO, I think we are actually arguing side by side rather than at each other. I spent years as a road service truck mechanic, then I have been self employed for 18 years, with about half of my self employment being mechanic work. Probably 80% of the things that will suddenly stop a truck are things that can be fixed on site. Having a big enough service truck allows you to carry enough things like hardware, brass fittings, an air governor, and other odds and ends that let you fix it quickly, without a trip back to town for something. I don't dispute that it is harder to transport a dead machine than a dead truck, but a well-equipped service truck can quickly pay for itself in the trucking industry also.
Well said Mitch504. I have had many a service call along the side of the road to help a trucker get rolling again. And many times it is a simple fix. Also done my share if swapping out power dividers & rear ends in a parking lot. Buddy "Mike" manages a fertilzer plant.We would get a call at 2am in the morning ........... Mike dident even say "good morning TD how are ya", It was more like ....."I got a spreader truck down over in Jackson county ,We think the rear end or transmission locked up...... Dont give a rats arse how ya fix it just make it roll again!" LOL Working for Mike was a real Hoot and He never failed in pushing us past what we thought were limitations to get a job done.I learned alot working for him.
Oh, yeah, a ratchet strap hooked on a crossmember makes a great "crane" for changing out rearends in a field.
It sure does Mitch .Alot of times we used a 4'x8' sheet of plywood for a "shop floor" and a transmission jack.Whatever it took to getter done. HeavyEquipmentForums
What my point was is what is the purchase price of a 33,000 gvw service truck and the purchase price of a well sized shop are they gonna be that much difference! can you build a shop for under 130-150k? So if your going to do repairs what ever you are doing yes you pry wont do overhauls unless you could use the customers shop but you do either with the same investment like Tom V does what wont he do? Jerry
Well things are stepping up some here so not wanting to feel left out as I sort of have the least kit in the smallest truck, but I manage to repair-rebuild just about anything from Transmissions through to engines in the crap it calves down in, a Workshop to do it in would be nice some times but I have to cope with the way things are, I would have around 20'000 miles + a year chargable to Customers and often get moaned at about my mileage charge, so to run a large outfit doing 4 or 5 mpg with Diesel around £7 a gallon would mean I just would not get any work, the U.K. Earth movers dont even like to use new plow bolts in cutting edges, so the thought that they might pay me extra to have compressors welders and cranes swinging off my service truck with 3 or 4 axles + an 855 Big Cam under the bonnet would be off kilter some, could we change this Thread Title to " who has the Least Stuff " as I might feel not so hard done by. tctractors
Tctractors, What's the normal rate you charge per mile or kilometer in England? Can anyone from down under tell me what they charge? The average rate in the chicagoland area is 3 dollors ( 1 pound 87) plus per mile from any of the OEM dealers and close to that for the independent mechanics.
Willie you forgot to say a "good mechanic" to go with the truck!! lol the truck don't make the mechanic but it sure helps the good ones be better!!
Good call FSERVICE. :drinkup
Very good point tctractors.In field repair is all about a wrench benders abillity to improvise & adapt to the present situation with what he has at the jobsite or in the truck . I started out with a 1983 two wheel drive ford ranger pickup with a topper on the bed and a craftsman toolbox in the back. No doubt if I was living in the U.K. I might be doing the same thing as you are in the Land Rover. Those Land Rovers are cool:thumbsup But we all live in different areas & enviroments. This thread has been interesting. Out of all the in field repair jobs I have been involved with such as excavating, trucking,farming,mining,Etc. The most challenging was working for fertilizer plants in the spring planting season. I have to say It's the "Wild West" of in field repair. Hell.....It's more like a" spaghetti western repair" . Rules...... Forget about them cause there aint none.It's very fast pace and the plant management only cares about getting the truck or piece of equipment back in production and send them a bill after ya get a little sleep LOL.It aint boring,and I thank god I was trained by these folks as it has helped me grow & develop other ideas of how to deal with repairs in field.
With the greatest of respect to you TCT, I love your thread and would love to have your ability and knowledge, but working without a compressor is torture. Surely it is more cost effective for your customers to have you use a compressor to run out bolts than to pay you an hourly rate to do them by hand?
Well on the charge per mile thing, for my regular customers its around 65 to 70 pence per mile, I charge from my front door to my front door the same price if I am driving to their knacker up or working on the knacker up, so the mileage charge is on top of my hourly rate that you all know is £5 AN HOUR, on the compressor thing it would just cost me money to buy it and run it with no extra coins from the customers being paid for this service, so suff it I use the 2 things on the end of my arms and love the pain, this just puts a clear line on how people in this World play a differing tune, most near every customer I have would not pay me an extra washer if I had all the toys???
That's slave labour. I don't know how you manage to make a living at those rates. You must put in unbelievable hours. The cheapest I've seen fitters round my way is £10 per hour and most are £20 upwards. But I agree with the high spec truck, what most people would rather have is a good fitter, but a good fitter and a top speced out truck would be even better. Graham
Tctractor, I can't believe you only charge 5 pounds a hour($8.04 an hour). I looked up the UK minimum wage at it's 6 pounds 31 pence ( that $10.15 an hour US). Do you care business liability insurance, like TIO stated could easily be 5 grand a year or more. Another reason I think there has been the change from pick up truck as service truck in the seventies to running 33000 pound trucks with crane, welder and air compressor, is OSHA, MSHA, and the fact it seems every job site has a safety manager making sure everyone is being safe. A crane truck can be a lot cheaper then paying a bunch of safety fines to the government, lost labor time due to things like back injuries and other injuries, workmen comp cases and lawsuits, or not getting a job because your customer has looked up your companies safety rating and won't even let you on their site, and high insurance rates. I'm sure I'm forgetting tons of other reasons that companies have migrated over the last three decades from pick up to class 6 or 8 service trucks, besides the most obvious being one guy can get a whole lot more done in one day by himself if he has all his equipment with him all the time. We all know we don't need the crane to get the job done, but at the end of each day our backs thanks us for the crane!
Gosh TC, some of these guys take everything you say as gospel, don't they?
Sorry, when I ask question I assume I'll get a real answer, if not what's the point of this forum
its interesting to hear the labor rates and mileage charges from around the globe. when I lived in maine, the highest paid independent field tech I knew of only charged $65-70/hr and i'm not sure about mileage. down here in texas the only independent tech I know charges $100/hr plus mileage. I work for a small construction company but my boss pimps me out sometimes and charges $70/hr from the time I leave until I get back. no additional mileage.
GSD1350, the mileage charge I posted is correct, the moans I get about it are plenty?? the labour rate is a good bit off but it managed to get a level of simpathy that I thought was "nice", the other day I was in a yard when the owners Wife came out of the House with a mug of Tea in each hand, she gave 1 mug to her Husband who was working with me cleaning parts off, then she stood and drank from the other mug while I just carried on working, this proves that some of my Customers would not offer me a cup of water, I dont think wrong of it the customer can please himself but it sticks in the mind some.
Tctractors that reminds me of something that happened to me a couple of years ago. I got sent out to help a owner/operator change cutting edges on his grader and do a few small jobs, might of done a oil change or something like that as well. Anyway as I was working he said he was gonna go and have some lunch I said no worries I will just keep going. When he came back from lunch he has a glass of scotch in his hand, for the rest of the day he stood there drinking a few more glasses of scotch while watching me work.
This thread makes my back hurt just remembering some of the crazy stuff we have all done with what we had to work with. I used to do burner and boiler work for a company. After working out of a van for 2 years I was given a 4X4 30 series truck with full bin body and an enclosed bed. By the next year it was almost overloaded but it was so nice to be able to fix things on the spot instead of running to the parts house. To have toolboxes and compartments where you could organize and inventory parts was a key part of being efficient. Other oufits would flag me down to see if I had a part they needed as I had a rep for being a rolling parts house. I could never go back to working out of a smaller vehicle. Just having a vise on the rear bumper was a great thing.
aint it the truth
I've had somewhat of a different experience over the years with customers Tctractors & biggav. If I am on a job at the customers residence when dinner time comes We all go in the house & eat together. Or if in the field customer runs in to town & brings back some grub for everyone.Pretty common practice,some people would take offence if ya dont go eat with them. Have a few that bring out barley soda on a hot day . Sometimes if a part is needed on the repair they run after it while I'm tearing the machine down. I've been blessed with some good folks to work for .I take care of them & they take care of me
I'm not a mechanic by trade, I'm an operator, but I have worked mainly for smaller outfits. I have owned 3/4 ton service trucks for the past 10 years and the contractors seem to love it. I carry all my small hand tools for changing blown lines or a bit bigger, all my laser and grade stuff and enough rigging to lift or un-stick most stuff on the average mid sized job. It is really nice to have all the things handy that an operator needs to keep himself productive when the other guys get sent home.
I've had the same thing happen to me TD, folks offer you a cold beer after yanking on their machine on a hot day and inviting you to eat supper. As tempting as that is, I typically tell them "I appreciate that, but that little card called a CDL is telling me no on the brew, and if I get fulled up on good grub, and go home with no appetite to eat the supper the boss has prepared, she's not going to be happy happy happy." But the generosity and hospitality is still there.
Thats what I was getting at willie. Good hospitality. In my neck of the woods what we call Dinner time is lunch time in other parts of the country 12:00 pm noon. Heck ....Supper time dont happen till 9:00pm sometimes LOL
Yep, been there done that.
Please dont think that all my Customers are like the mug of tea team, some of them are fantastic to work for with a true kindness and manner that has no limits, the tea drinking thing was a very fresh thing that sort of hacked me off a good chunk, dont forget I have the last word on the mug of tea saga with my bill for the job. The other thing that knocks me off my Perch some, is the Customer that tells you about a small job that needs doing only to find its a monster task, the other day I had a Muck-Shift outfit ask me to fit a new track adjuster seal kit into a Komatsu Blade, I said yes no trouble I will sort it the next day early, I get to the Site to be followed in with a Truck full of under-cart for the Beast, this is rollers, segments, idlers, track groups and the driver of the blade had a bag in his hand with the seal kits in for both adjusters, at this point if my truck had a crane on it would have been handy, as I had no use of anything machinery wise to help me lift or pull anything about, it was all hand work with 2 days to get it done, I will be posting a few snaps in my usual slot soon. tctractors
I've said it before, Whenever someone says "all ya gotta do is XXX"...never works that way. :yup
Thats good to hear tctractors. Working for the mug & tea folks would get old quick. Also run into a few of those 1hour jobs that turn into half day ordeals at times. Look forward to seeing pictures of the repair .
I always worry when they say "it should only take a hour to do this job" that's the jobs I got to with lunch in hand & don't plan another job the rest of the day!! lol most of my customers will be offended if I don't eat with them most understand the drinkin & driving the big truck. I have had some really good meals when iv gone outa town to work for 1 of my customers the owner always tells the job foreman take him to the best steakhouse there & pick up the tab!! I get a xmas bonus from him every year also & usually a ham, its nice to feel appreacheated every once & awhile
I hate to ruin my reputation by being the one who gets a thread back on track, but... That's exactly why I drive a service truck, if you just take the tools to do a simple thing, then it gets added to. It might be as simple as knowing I have 3 or 4 of every bolt size the parts store has, and some they don't. If I have to drive 7 miles of muddy dirt road, then 10 or 15 of rough pavement to get to town, it makes a 3/8 x 2 bolt cost dang near $100 by time I have it at the job.
Dead on target
I think it's more to do with culture because we all do similar work, size might change considerabliy at I see from the pictures. Its about what the clients what, there also seem to less red in some other countries than here in ticketed Britain, EU makes it harder, price of fuel we have to take into account here. I think if more plant, heavy equipment, HGV, agricultural, service companies had more big service truck running around like the ones we see over the pond. It would be become the norm, clients would realise that machines would be running quicker and earning more. And a rethink on the types of truck/lorry we could run as service truck, also not having to out having to jump though hopes if we need something heavier than 3.5 ton, we are never going to see the benefit larger services. But that would have to come goverment level because of law changes required.
I can only speak for me, but with the work I do keeping up our rental fleet the crane on my truck is an invaluable tool, makes my life a helluva lot easier. Komatsu CD110R crawler dumper has been on rent in an underground mine for over a year. During that time the operator(s) more than once bumped the roof of the mine while dumping a load. This pretty much destroyed the front bulkhead of the dump body. Easiest way to repair the dump body is remove it from the truck and send it to the fab shop for rebuild. The crane on my truck made this task easy and safe.
willie whats the step ladder for?? are you vertically challenged also? lol
LoL, that was to climb into the dump bed to spread the 4 way chain hooks after I centered the load block over the bed while the bed was still mounted on the truck.
Told that to a young lady one time. Next time she repeated it, she said she was horizontally challenged. Should have offered to help her.