I know nothing about yarders but it seems like tigercat hit the nail on the head. What say you yarder experts?
I have to wonder about no guylines. Too many engineers like to get the most logs possible per pull.
I know nothing about yarders either but couldn't they limit that with grapple size?
They have a small grapple in that video, probably because of no guy lines. Loggers always want to push the envelope though.
But a faster set-up time has to be a plus.
No way Tigercat has done this on their own:
Ya, seems to work well.
$2M once rigged with lines & a carriage. I just don't see how that pays vs a $50k air friction 071 with 4 guylines. I've never seen hydraulic winches last over 5000 hours either.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have one but it's no replacement for a real yarder.
Well that answers that! My next question- I know an 071 is a madill yarder but what is air friction?
Air actuated frictions vs hydraulic drive
Frictions are basically I bic clutch that is air operated so there is usually a mechanical connection to the engine. Hydraulics are the same as a hoist line on your service truck crane. Frictions you can release clutch and brake at same time and they will free spool. At least that is how the cranes I have been around are set up.
Slowhttps:// www.rowlandcompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Wichita-Standard-Vent-Clutch-Service-Manual.pdf Hope this works! Never tried it before.d.d.
I'm vaguely familiar with crane frictions I just didn’t realize they were air operated on a yarder. I’ve never seen one in person before. We don’t have ground out here that warrants the use of one.
We don't either but I have been around several cranes and rig barges
Crane frictions are made to slip and have feel. Yarder frictions are either released or engaged.
I respectfully disagree. We slip yarder frictions often. Example- lowering a turn or carriage we "back em down" thru the frictions.
I didn't know that you could do that. I stand corrected.
We do that because just relying on brake alone is too violent so what we do is we will throw the yarder up into 3rd gear (or just use torque converter if no trans) or so and let the weight of it come down through the frictions effectively slipping them as the load is lowered
How do you do that without graduated air to the clutch. I would have thought the WC brake would be used. Not disagreeing just want to learn. Thanks d.d.
What advantage would this have over a Log Champ 550?
On the Clyde draw works we are either in or out on the frictions, and control that "feel" with the torque converter, or work against the brake. They don't have the friction in partially. The friction is an internal cammed set of shoes operated by the air line though the shaft swivel here. Sorry for the screens, with those off you can see it better and also lose more body parts. There are a pair of air cans in there. The brakes are external bands shown here. The can on the left is the service brake ( foot pedal ), the big can on the right is the brake you set, and that little can below moves the dog shaft and sets the dog in the notches you see on the right side of the drum in the picture above. You let the load down into the dog to park it and pull the load up out of the dog to get going again. Just posting that to show the air frictions and the difference with how they are operated on those cranes. I was disabused of trying to use partial friction
Same principal but we apply graduated air to them. Generally, solid lock up is roughly 70-80# & higher. We slip em around 35-50#.
Standing skyline over running skyline. Hydraulic drums for more precision control for slacking a Hydraulic grapple carriage, ect.
So I take it that you have a treadle valve working the Wichita clutch.
The 3 levers in the middle of the dash are haulback, skyline and mainline. If you push that lever forward it controls the Wichita or Eaton water brake. Farther forward you push it the more brake pressure it applies. If you pull the lever rearward it engages the frictions and just the same, farther you pull rearward the more air pressure it applies to the frictions.
That is an expanding shoe friction design like the Skagit 737,739,98,199 and also the Thunderbird hoists. You can slip them but for your application you definitely do not want to.
Take the $50,000 and use as a down payment on the $2M 10-year loan. Monthly payment is $9,451. Save on two choker setters (by using a grapple carriage) at $50k annual salary each, actually about $65k each when you added benies and unemployment, workmen’s comp, so $130k per year; Divide by 12 months = $10,833 per monthly savings. There’s your monthly payment.
Sounds great! Until you realize that late model hydraulic machines do not run 20000 hours, you still have to have guys on the ground to make the layout, still have to have guys on the ground to set chokers to reach behind the RMZ's or down below the bluffs et cetera. These are a great tool for a huge company that can spend the money on them to appease the kids working for the timber companies that think this is the future. I can assure you that you will never get away from having guys on the ground setting chokers. Oh, 20% down on $2m is $400k also, not $50k. But, what do I know about logging.
Always will be the Gyppo loggers operating with paid-for but beat-up equipment who don’t need to put out so many loads per day to meet their bills, and then the big guys with the new equipment who push hard to make the quota and their higher bills. Grapple yarding and guyless systems are not new, but also won’t work for every slope and all stands of timber thus the need still for choker setters and big towers. There is always a learning curve with new methods/equipment and training up people- equipment gets damaged, people will get hurt. I hope the above photos of the tipped over yarder didn't include any serious injury. As this is new equipment, I am guessing this was probably operator failure rather than equipment failure, pushing the bounds of maximum loads in a machine that’s more Yoader/Excaliner than a conventional yarder.
I guess this old gyppo equipment of mine must not be too bad because we out produce those hydroswingy thingies about 2/1. As a matter of fact one of those tigercat 2 million dollar "investments" has been sitting on a setting that is 17 acres for 3 weeks now. 1 log at a time doesn't seem too effective to me oh then you gotta send somebody out there to pull drop line to pick up all the chunks that it breaks as it's grabbing stuff by the tops and breaking them out. Well, there is hope though....they moved their 071 in to finish the setting. Those glorified yoders would work great in a modified shovel unit but don't think that they're ever gonna replace towers with one.
I will show this thread to Steve, I'm sure he will get a chuckle.
Those old yarders and such are amazing in how long they last and the beating that can happen just moving them from place to place. I wonder though if they have the same issues as old line cranes in finding capable operators who can both run and keep the things in adjustment.
It is definitely tough to find a good yarder engineer but it is tough to find a good anybody these days. 15 open positions for 2 qualified bodies and 7 seat covers
Caterpillar, Finning and Lantec put together a SY235 hydraulic swing yarder in 1979/180ish. 235 excavator base with Lantec peewee hydraulic winches. They saw the need to put in 2 guylines with swivel sheaths back then. NZ Cat SY235 swing yarder rebuild. (present day) 200hp 55 tonnes. 45 foot mast, 1300 foor of 3/4 wire main, 2600 ft 3/4 haulback, 1300ft 3/4 slackpulling drum Probably suitable for smaller, younger trees some places. https://www.facebook.com/NZLOGGER/p...2UrIklzbzIHztmXLnsY7_-_W6a10VFXOU&__tn__=EH-R https://issuu.com/nzlogger/docs/lg_20220405_60
None, less line pull, slower, weighs more, takes up more room on a skinny trail and i haven't seen a guyline winch yet so if your in a ****** spot hooking to stumps life is going to suck.
From what I have seen running a motorized grapple on a harvestline "junk" when you are digging around grabbing logs the carriage takes a hell of a beating so add mechanics wages into keeping the thing running. Also they don't do low deflection settings at all tend to really tear up stuff.
@Tacodriver , you can't tell a guy anything about a yarder if he knows nothing about yarders. Tigercat makes nice equipment but that 180 is not a "yarder".
I seen someone on the book of faces compare it to a 071 and how it was better and had a good laugh. You need those guys in the bush learning never know if that one guy is going to make an awesome hooktender if he was never out in the rigging. Can throw a grapple carriage on any yarder if that's what the pointy heads at the mill think will work but you better have a machine spoon feeding it if you want the grapple to produce and survive. No running skyline yet so for grapple yarder guys they can't use a mechanical grapple that has no hydraulics, computers or engine to smash. Important things when you a grappling with poor deflection.
It's a neat tool for a modified shovel unit but ain't no all around yarder.