I bought a dead 963 with real good 22 inch double grouser pads. Being the tight ass I am I'd like to try and save the track bolts as they are in real good shape. My inch impact wouldn't budge them. I did heat one nut red hot and got it loose. Has anyone used an induction heater on these to get them loose?
Heating to red heat and slow cooling of Grade 9 alloy steel hardware destroys their heat treatment and results in the nuts and bolts becoming hard and more brittle. A good soaking over a few days with a top grade penetrant should see them crack loose. Make 100% sure that your socket is a tight fit on the heads, use an undersize socket if required. A loose-fitting socket causes losses in the impact effect.
What Oz sez... Plus sometimes a 10 foot cheater on a flex bar gets that first bit that the airgun can't do. Also, I noticed that the oil patch boys up here tend to use "slug wrenches" that look like a box end wrench with the other end made to be hit with a sledge hammer. Never used one myself but might be another angle to try... Jon.
I saw a demo of a heavy thick walled 6 point impact socket working better than a lighter weight socket. When we poped off some of the 977 pads 1" impact, 3/4" hose plumed straight into the end of the tank, no oil, no heat, no problem. Good tip on giving the penitrating oil lots of time to work... recoating over many days really helped me in the past. Big hammers are nice!! Hold the wrench hard into the direction you want to go and bash it with a big one. Try wacking staight down on the head first, it can help break the hold the rust has on it.
What are you going to do with the dead 963? As far as the bolts - my suggestion would be to gas axe them off, buy new ones and get back to running the machine and making money.
I just spent 4 days removing 344 track pad bolts from my D7. I had to heat 95% of them and cut off 20% of those. I bought an induction heater but it hasn't arrived from China yet. My advice is cut them off, buy new ones and get back to running the machine and making money. (Or just listen to CM1995).
I can't stress too much as regards the tight-fitting socket. A socket that's even a slightly loose fit on the head, "bounces" off the head flats, and you lose a lot of the direct impact thump, that is needed to break the nuts loose. All track bolt heads wear, and they develop a taper on the flats on the heads that makes it difficult to get a socket to fit them firmly. Some tool companies even manufacture specially-undersized sockets for track bolts. But sometimes you can get a metric socket to make a tight fit, even if it needs a little hammering on and off. You will possibly wear out 2 or 3 sockets on a full set of tracks, this is "severe service" work, and the flats on the sockets collect a hiding from this type of work.
Absolutely agree with this. When I did the rails on my little Case a couple years ago, wore out two Tekton impact sockets. Bought a Snap-on. Same thing last winter, but I think it was only one casualty on the 210.
A 963 has medium size bolts and not worth the time and effort to try and reuse them. If they were originally stretched slightly to get the proper torque I think they may be compromised putting them back to the correct torque. They would need to be torqued slightly tighter to compensate which may make them more prone to failure. Aftermarket bolts are quite a bit less than Cat to replace.
Consider a risk assessment of the stress, toil & resources involved with trying to save some easily sourced hardware. Save your energy for the engine and transmission overhaul.
Probably going to cut the nuts. Bought it for the motor and thought while I had it in the shop I'd get the pads off. Wanting to use the 22 inch pads on the 963 I'm putting the motor in. Guess I'll drag it to the bone yard and just pull the rails to cut the bolts in the shop when weather shuts me down. We had a 8 foot pipe on a 3/4 breaker bar but didn't budge even one of them.
I had a lowboy with stuck lug nuts that my 1" gun wouldn't touch. I had a 10' cheater bar on, and I was bouncing that trailer all over the yard, chained the rims up to the frame and everything. This stupid little tool popped them loose. Its just a hand torque multiplier, but I've popped more stuck stuff loose with it than I like to think about. I've got one of the the old ratchet type second bar torque multipliers, but they are a pain trying to hold everything in place, these with the torque arm, are a one man operation. I don't know if you would have enough pad/ grouser sticking up- for the arm to grab on to. They're cheap and they looked gimmicky as all get out, but its saved my bacon a few times. I have done the "heavy" socket thing also, by welding a thick wall piece of pipe over top of the socket, with limited success.
I've been purchasing "Grey Pneumatic" impact sockets through son in law and have been very pleased with these. They seem to hold up well. I only have a few in 1" drive but only use them on wheel ends so far. Never have broken anything in the 3/4", 3/8", or 1/4" set at all.
Ok, I just ordered one from Amazon. I'll put it to the test in a couple of weeks on the roller retaining bolts on the D7.
I got the one in the blue case, just because it came with more sockets. The cases are kind of crap, so I've moved ours over to a old red metal tool box with some extra sockets. When you get to really cranking on them, you can see it all torque up, so be careful. You can't put a impact on them, they have to have the constant tension on the handle. Impact will just beat it to pieces. Amazon.com
Cat used to sell "undersized" 6-point impact sockets specifically for removing track bolts with worn heads. I'm not sure whether or not they still do, even though the sockets are still isted in my Tool Guide. Depending on the bolt head size the sockets are broached 1/32" or 1/16" under the size of the "standard" socket for the bolt head.
Please let us know how you make out with it. Also, what is the reduction ratio of the gearbox in it? TKS, Jon.
the one I got: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BNKFPPNF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Will do, 64:1
For some reason, I remember mine as being 87:1
I have that set, case is less than crap but it's a handy bit of work to have when needed. Need a report back on the Chinese induction heater too please. Joe H
I figured out how to get them out without cutting. They either come loose or break. I made myself an ACME adapter kit to hook a one inch drive socket on the hydraulic auger on my skid steer. Started with a 1 1/8 deep well impact socket from harbor freight as that's all I had to fit them. Got one loose instantly and went to the second and blew the side out of the socket. Went and bought a 1 inch drive short 27 mm which fits them good and took several loose only breaking one. It's absolutely no strain they either come loose or break. I got the master links loose and on both sides and going to get them in the shop so I have a hard flat spot to work on them. I do have to do some grinding on the socket to get it to set flat, it hits the radius of the cleat on some of them.
That seems like an awful lot of time consuming work.
You have to weigh up the cost of new bolts and nuts against the value of your time and effort getting them out. New track bolts and nuts were really cheap years ago, it's not the case today - although it does appear that many Western fastener manufacturers are getting their bolts and nuts from China and India, so that keeps their cost down. If you're thinking or re-using track bolts and nuts, you need to measure the shanks for thinning or necking. Bolts that have been slammed in with big air impact guns originally may have been over-torqued and stretched. I use the simple test of placing the bolt shank in a pair of caliper jaws and holding the bolt and vernier up to a light source/strong daylight. If you can see daylight anywhere along the shank, the shank is stretched and not worth re-using, as it will fracture upon applying full torque.
Aftermarket bolts and nuts are reasonably priced. Trying to save the old bolts to save money is like the owner of a Ferrari complaining about the cost of new tires. Track hardware is a minor expense with a track loader.
I'm just looking for the easiest way to get them out. Took maybe a half hour to make the adapter out of stuff I had laying around. We spent that much time getting one bolt out with the torch and impact. Sure is easy just pushing a button to get them loose plus you have the weight of the machine pushing down on the socket. I may reuse them just have to see when I get them out. The heads on the bolts are in real good shape, I realize what you are saying about stretch. I've reused bolts with no problem before. I did a little happy dance when this worked, I can have a bolt loose or broke in a few seconds.
Track bolts are not the same as other bolts. They are like head bolts, just get new ones. They are tightened to specific values that are close to the maximum they can hold before deformity. It would not be unlikely that many of them could have been stretched just a little too much. What shape the heads are in has no bearing on what shape the rest of the bolt is in. If you were using a torch, why did you need an impact? Just torch the nuts off, done. That is the easiest way to remove them. Have you priced out aftermarket bolts and nuts from ITR, ITM, Trek or others or just trying to save money? They might not be as expensive as you think.
No it's a lot easier just pushing a toggle and they come loose. I can set this on a bolt and have it loose or broke in a few seconds. When I get them in the shop on the solid flat surface it will go fast. I just thought a dirt cheap torque amplifier would intrigue a few people. I haven't priced new bolts but will, just wanted to get the pads off the junk rails. And I will reuse the bolts if they look good!! I'm a one man band 64 year old owner operator that's been at it since I was 18 years old in the excavating business. To say I'm hard headed is an understatement.
The Michelins for my Ferrari cost less than the Toyos for my wife's work truck.
What's your wife's work truck?
'12 F-150 265/70-18 Toyo Open country ATIII's on it.
The Ferrari must have a smaller common size of tire. I'm sure there are more expensive performance tires available. The comparison is still the same. Track bolts aren't a big expense in the overall scheme of things, especially on a crawler machine.
The hidden cost of re-using old track bolts is the labour involved in cleaning them up and examining them for damage. If you don't value your time a lot, or if you're on a tight budget it might work out for you, but 95% of people simply install new bolts, a known level of quality, and no installation hassles. It's not uncommon for high tensile fine threads to gall or "pick up" upon re-use, so you then have to pull them out again.
Love the auger motor Idea
OMG! You cant reuse those! Their magic holding power has already been sent to the iron heavens! Its not like he is half assing the brakes on a semi truck. Its a pad on an OLD track loader. If a couple of them fall off, its not going to crash into a bus load of nuns or run over a car load of children. The pad is just going to get loose or fall off. THUD, the pad hits the ground. Thats all the excitement that happens. Worst that can happen (my luck) one will fall off in the mud and you will spend an hour with bar poking the mud till ya hear a clank and find it, lol! People make worse decisions every day. Dont loose any sleep over your fastener shenanigans, lol!
Yeah, me too. I thought that was great!!
The only logical answer here is "Less Tightwadness"
My older beat up 973 I use in the brush came out of a rock quarry. The pads are shot, maybe a half inch of cleat but it's great when it's dry. Rails aren't great either and it has probably half dozen pads loose. They were loose when I got it. If the rails were better than 50 percent I would have probably done some work on them. Had it six years and haven't lost a pad yet.
Never. Every green little paper screams as it leaves my wallet.
Thats from the smell lol
Update I got one side in the garage this morning. I'm working by myself so lining up the socket on the bolt is a little tough as my eyes aren't the greatest and the bolt is the same color as the track. I got 28 pads loose before I ruined the socket. Seven broke and I had to get off the machine to beat them out. Sometimes the socket would hang and come off the adapter but I started angling as I picked up and most the time the socket would come off of the bolt. One hour exactly if I would have help could have cut that in half I'm guessing. Just for fun I cranked one the other way and it broke in a half turn with no strain on the auger. None of the ACME adapter has failed yet. This is not taking the nut completely off as some of nuts starting turning near the end. Think I'll go to Harbor F. and see if they will warranty the rounded socket!!
Got them all loose and decided to use my Milwaukee impact to spin them out. It was all it could do to turn most of them so I'm guessing the rust build up was half the load breaking them loose. The one I over tightened broke down by the nut. The ones that broke trying to loosen them broke the head off. Angling the socket is what ruined it I believe.
I have been using rust penetrant product for over 20 years that has made the removal of stuck fasteners much easier than any other product I have ever used. The stuff is called Yield and is made by Chemsearch. I have had bolts that would not come off with heating, beating or any other method you can think of, soak them with Yield, give it a little time, and 99% of the time they will come loose with surprisingly minimal effort. Amazing stuff. Every one that I have turned on to this stuff ended up ordering their own supply. It's not the cheapest, but I won't use anything else. I order it by the case direct from Chemsearch.
Track bolts are a different animal.