Hi Guys, just wanted to see what you think of the new cat loaders, planning on trading our almost new deere for a 262c with vertical lift and all the options, and i'm wondering if i should wait for the 2011 or go with a 2010 model? what changes are being made? any improvements, any additional options? please let me know, deal is about ready to be closed,
Well if your buying a 2010 your getting a machine that is already a model year old. So your taking a years worth of depreciation as soon as you own it and have made nothing to offset that year. You will feel that when you trade or sell the CAT. I have always been curious. Given the way that CAT markets their machines the 262 and 272 are the same machine just different power levels I believe. So if there are no differences between the two in physical size, might be minor ROC difference, but why not just spring for the more powerful unit. I realize the 262 is a little cheaper but it would seem better money to get all you can for your money and likely pick that extra money back up in resale value.
remember the new case machines are coming out soon .
The 262 and the 272 are different machines. The 72 is a longer machine by four inches, it has more lift height plus more power, the 72 also has the air to aftercooler, it is also weighs more. Just a few differences, i am a fan of the 62 you will love this machine, good luck would love to see some pics when you get her.
basicly we chose the smallest machine with vertical lift, the 242c wouldve been big enough, but has no vertical lift, does that make sense?
dont want a case no offense,
Well that changes things. What caused the early departure of the Deere? Also the 242 is vertical. The 216, 226,236,246,256 are radial lift.
reason 1: too small, reason 2: too many problems with it, joysticks don't work properly, after the 4th deere, coming from the 250, always had problems with it, time to move on, was it a good choice?
Also the 242 is vertical. The 216, 226,236,246,256 are radial lift.[/QUOTE] hmm, whats the difference between the 242b series 3 and 262c besides the 10 horse power more on the 262c
On the 262 you will have more HP, more lift capacity, maybe more hydraulic flow to the auxillary hydraulic. I now have a 2002 242 Cat sigle speed and if I ever upgrade I would go to the 262 Cat with 2 speed and maybe look at the hiflow machines. I love the Cat pilot controls and I get very good service from my local Cat dealer.
Don't work I'm not a case salesman just throwing it out there. I don't know what your looking to do with the machine but if you want a big machine with the highest lift height we run Mustang / gehls. They're a beast but for small tear out jobs you can't beat them.
if you want a big machine with the highest lift height we run Mustang / gehls. They're a beast but for small tear out jobs you can't beat them.[/QUOTE] How do you think these machines compare? the cat 262c and the mustang 2700v? as far as built quality? balance? power to wheel ratio? better controls? i know the mustang still uses the pilot controls, vs, cat went to the elec/hydro controls,
I know that Deere had issues with their E/H introduction. I thought they had fixed it however. CAT has had issues with their E/H intro as well with numerous upgrades to their system. If a 320D was too small I would not even consider a 242. If you want a CAT then the 262 is likely the best sized machine. You might consider at least demoing a CASE 445 with pilots you might like it.
I think they're pretty close but the mustang has 3" more of lift. Both of our 7810e's have pilot controls and we've been happy with our them. These are our 4th pair that we've bought from gehl/mustang.
I would try and get a good long demo on a 262 and see what you think. Demo is ordered, but it's ours to keep, will have it within a week or 2, brand new 2011 262c with all the option, will see how it'll hold up,
The cat eh controls work great on my 289c have no complaints, they are smooth as can be no jerking or jumping. We demoed a 279c before we ordered our 289 and there were problems with that machine, that machine did not have the updates on it, you could tell the difference. You should love the 262.
im impressed these companies r still having problems with e h joysticks. is it that hard? does construction equipment like graders have problems with their e h controls? anyone know if the new case machines will have pilots or e h? so if its -10 degrees F how long does it take for pilots to work right on startup?
My case dealer (we just bought a new loader a few weeks back) told us this generation will have E/H controls as an option.
Yes E/H will be an option. CASE is flying me to Pheonix the first week of Feb to run the new machines. I am curious to see these new machines work. Torque is off by 35 pounds on the new models compared to the S-3 machines. I am not real happy about that. The specs on the new models has them derated down to about where Deere is torque wise.
well will pilot be an option? did they keep case servo hand controls? im not happy case and nh are going to be the same machine...its impossible to combine the 2.
The cat m series graders had problem with there eh controls when they came out, with there steering, there has been a few upgrades on those units also witch they have gotten better every time, just like the skidsteers.
does anyone know if mustang/gehl skids are pilot or eh controlled?
the skid steers, not the ctls
pilot
hm, so gehl/mustang might pick up some case customers? especially 430 and 440 owners? its an inconvenience that non of these companies make a vertical lift path skid steer to compete with bobcats 175 185 205. i would suspect this is bobcats bread and butter machine, but nobody else makes a similar model, did bobcat somehow pull off an impossible feat by designing a vertical boom in such a small machine?
Interesting point. Not sure if this new series addresses this gap or not. I suspect the reason they have not built a machine to compete with a 185 sized to date is because the advantage of vertical lift is truck loading, heavy pallet work and that sort of thing. The 2000 ROC machines are not doing alot of that sort of thing and so I "suspect" that CASE believes that the radial lifts that exist in their line in the 2200 ROC and below can compete with the 2200 and under vertical machines from BC. Believing that most of the 185 owners likely don't "need" the vertical lift. However for whatever reason its a popular machine for BC so regardless of whether they need it or not they have been buying them for years. Personally I prefer running a radial lift machine, cleaner sight lines but thats just me. When the 205 came out I thought BC hit a home run with that machine. What a great size. My view is it was a base hit but they missed it. The machine is anemic, with poor breakout. If they had just gave it horse perhaps in the mid 70's and more breakout I think it would have been a lot better machine.
The B3 machines do not have a sealed and pressurized cab and run pilot hydraulics. Between the 242B3 and the 262C specifically, the machines themselves are completely different sizes -- the 262C is physically larger in every way. The 242B3 is actually a competitor to the Deere 320/320D. The 2700V has not been out that long and is Gehl/Mustang's second vertical-life machine. Assuming there are no electronic glitches or the like, they're probably solid machines -- low maintenance, solid machines that might not offer the creature comforts of Deere's D-series, Cat's C-series, or Bobcat's M-series. (Don't know about Case's unreleased but upcoming models.) I don't think that Gehl/Mustang will win over too many Case customers. Case tends to be construction; NH, agricultural. Gehl/Mustang are split in a similar manner, with most Mustang sales going to CE and a lot of Gehl sales to ag. Their weakness is the dealer network. Bobcat's network is extremely strong, and Case's is, too. The Gehl/Mustang network is not as entrenched as the others. As for the Bobcat S175 and its brothers: Cat offers the 232 and 242 to compete; Deere has the 317D and 320D; NH has its L160 and L175; Komatsu used to offer a model; and Case has its 445. The S185 is Bobcat's best-selling machine, but its predecessor's predecessor (the 7753) was created to respond to NH's line. It was with the success that NH and Deere had that Bobcat introduced its 7753 and 873 models, and, in fact, most people would agree that a Deere 320D would spank a Bobcat S205 (and that a Deere 317D would spank a Bobcat S185). Cat created its models to challenge Bobcat's product range directly.
well on the farm we need vertical lift for loading the tmr mixer and manure spreader. these machines just keep getting bigger and taller and a 185 is just barely big enough with enough reach to load these days. the reach is handy for unstacking big square bales too or loading a trailer out in the field for reaching the center bale. it seems like you never lift anything on the farm without lifting it all the way to the top. most farmers around here have 2 or 3 185s. since farmers are usually using older buildings where work was once done by hand, they still need the small size of the 185. yea the 205 is ok. i think the main problem with it is its just a 185 with a little more horse and added weight. they might have tweaked the hydraulics but nothing to really make a big difference. are there any skid steers with variable displacement hydraulic pumps so the machine will work just as quickly at lower rpms? as far as horsepower in a machine, i have never felt i needed more than the 56 the 185 has... u just dont push the levers as far.
does the heater work in all these deutz powered machines? i know that was always the downfall with deutz power. the heat on kubota powered machines works great and warms up quickly.
the cat and deere 232 242 317 320 case 445 and komatsu machines are all WAY longer OR way wider than a s185. i believe they are about the same length as a s650 or longer (excluding the case). our s185 is 102 inches long and 60 inches wide with inset rims. a nh with 2050lbs lift is also way longer than a s205. the closest competition to a 185 is the new nh 175 which is still less lift. it doesnt lift as high and its effective turning circle is bigger than a 185 because the booms are the back corners of the machine which is also the widest point. my problem with hn is their boom is weak. the way it wraps around effectively makes it like a radial boom twice the normal length. the bucket has an awful lot of leverage on the boom. i have heard of quite a few of them breaking. my other problem with deere and nh is their weak rear end. the doors are paper thin and all the sheet metal would be completely smashed instantly on the farm along with the radiator. as far as a deer 320 spanking a 205... there is nothing that can touch a case 440 for its size; and again a s650 has the same dimensions as a 320 as far as length. the deere is 108 inches long, the 205 is 102...6 inches is HUGE in a skid steer. for the record, put me in my 185 and i would likely spank most operators even if they had larger machines.
on high flow machines, does the boom and bucket have more force and speed or not really?
No. the boom and bucket functions are controlled through the standard aux flow circuit. Typically 15-22gpm depending on the brand and size of the machine.
The newer Deeres actually have pretty substantial doors, and while there may be merit to rebar poking into the door if you're a demo contractor, most people won't mess up their radiators or fans in that manner. The size issue is an interesting one -- Cats are actually about 5" longer than the S175/S185, which surprised me. I didn't realize that. If Deere's literature is to be trusted, however, both the 317 and 320 are 102" in length without bucket and around 126" in length with bucket. (I also didn't expect that Deeres would be shorter than Bobcats. I thought it'd be vice versa...)
im also impressed the deere is only 102 inches long. the specs i read before were different. my big complaint is deere doesnt offer 2 speed in this machine...which surprises me since it was just released and all the competition has it. 2 speed is not that desirable for me, i just want it for fuel savings and less wear and tear while running around the farm. actually i wouldnt buy a deere cuz the local dealer is worthless. they own like 15 dealerships, but are somehow still worthless. another thing is we have no room to spare turning the skid steer in the freestall barn. with the boom raised on a deer, a hit from a freestall would do serious damage... happens all the time to the bobcat...no worries.
Deere just release 2-speed on the 318D and 320D. Also...the D-series has the ability to fine tune the controls just like Cat. If the machine was way to jerky (which I have been in D-series that are) a quick de-tune of the controls makes night and day difference!
yes when i looked into getting a cat i was quite surprised how little they do for the physical size that they are. and yes it seems that they tried to compete directly with bobcat as far as their design which is why i was surprised with their length. the tradeoff has always been rear visability for machine length. i guess cat went with the worst of both worlds. did anyone else hear that AGCO is trying to buy CNH from fiat?
I'm not sure about the Skids, or 320D...But the new 333D I have on demo is scary fast in reverse with the 2 speed enabled. It can honestly get away from you if your not careful and just jump into this machine coming from older slower T300's.
I have not heard that AGCO is trying to buy CNH. I thought AGCO and CAT were in bed together?
well... agco bought the ag division of cat quite a while back. they call the tractors challengers now. they also have a challeger AND a cat combine. the challenger is actually a massey. the cat is the same as a claas i believe. i think claas traded its combine for cats tractors. so claas puts their name on challenger tracked tractors and visa versa. it doesnt seem like agco has free reign with the cat name. over the years agco has bought challenger, fendt, massey, white, valtra, gleaner, hesston, rogator, spacoupe, sunflower, terragator, wilmar, and others. i would sure think agco would have a hard time buying cnh. i wonder if government would allow it. agco and cnh r the 2nd and 3rd ag companies behind deere. if they got this deal done they would be number one in the world. deere would still be number one in the us. fiat has become increasingly a car company, so i wonder if owning cnh is part of their long term strategy. unless agco is planning on buying deere too i dont see how it would really be a strategic move for them other than just trying to eliminate competition.
yea 2 speed needs to be respected on a skid steer. people have been breaking their necks i hear.
thats why you need 2 speed and ride control
AGCO and Cat worked together on the ag side only. Agco is interested in buying CNH if Fiat wants to sell, but nothing firm yet. http://www.forconstructionpros.com/...-to-Buy-CNH-If-Fiat-Decides-to-Sell/4FCP18741 http://www.dieselprogress.com/Industry-News/3067/AGCO-Still-Interested-In-CNH/
Dave which dealer is that? Pm me if need be.