I have an older TD15C (80-81) with a DT466 engine. I'm doing an in-frame rebuild. I have all the the pistons and sleeves removed. After replacing all the main bearings at only half torque (50LBs) I cannot manually turn the crank. There are three 1/2 inch bolts on the crank pulley that should allow me to turn it. I can back off all the main caps and get the crank to turn. I've checked all my caps and the numbers are all in the right place. All the arrows on the bottom of the cap point to the cam side (right), which is how I took it apart. I know there is close tolerance, but I just think I should be able to turn it by hand, especially since the pistons are not installed. I'm to the point now of thinking something is wrong with the bearings. I did mike one of the old ones with the new ones and they are very close. Can anyone please tell me if this is normal? Thank you
Close and very close on bearings isn't good. Did you do the plasi-gage? Did you use assembly lube or dry fit? When I get to the house tonight, I can get the numbers from the manual for ya and upload them.
I did use Permetex assembly lube (Sticky red color). I didn't use plasi-gage. My thoughts were since I was going from standard bearings and back to the same. I shouldn't have had any issue. Really the original bearings were not bad, but since I had the rebuild kit, thought I would just swap them out. I did have a broke ring on two pistons and a bad o-ring on one the sleeves.
Hey, Question is why to replace crank main bearings in first place? From where i come from we only replace crank main bearings if the crank is worn or show signs of seizing, wich in both cases crank need to be honed and polished, and usually bearings will be a size up. The other thing to consider is main bearings are not suposed to wear out, as they have to ride on the oil film, the 2 surfaces do contact but only with engine is stopped. If they are alowed to contact in operation they will scuff out and seize, it does not take long.... Nevertheless, now that u have the baby in your hands, answer is, yes it should be able to turn free, if its not turning free it may seize after some hours of operation. Check the correct position of caps, check debris and clean throuly the bearing bed. if posible check clearence with plastigauge. Good luck
You "might" have gotten undersize (oversize) bearings... They do run from STD thru .03.
What brand of overhaul kit did you get? I’ve seen off brand kits have bearings that were not marked the correct size. Maybe you got a .010 or .020 set incorrectly marked.
Ummm..... That IS Permatex #81950 correct?
Yes, that's it.
The bearings were in one cardboard plastic wrapped piece. They were standard, but I didn't check each one to make sure the manufacturer didn't screw up. The place that sent me the kit is sending me another set of bearings and I will check each one before installing. Thank you
They bare sending me another set of bearings.......I hope they work. Thanks.
Double check that all bearing caps are in their correct position and that they are not turned around the tabs on the bearings should be on the same side. Also tighten each one down individually to see if one or more are binding. Crank should turn by hand with no effort
OK here is the numbers for crank and bearing.
Might want to look at your engine number. This is for a STD set.
I always use Plastigage to check rod and main bearings when building or reassembling an engine. Even with good precision measuring tools it's a good last step to double check your work. You can never assume anything when it comes to clearances, check and recheck. Plastigage is so cheap and easy there is no reason not to use it.
Its not uncommon to get yhe wrong bearings in a kit. Just do what we all do and blame the parts guy. Those guys are trained to take a beating
Thank you. It was mentioned about the caps on wrong, but these will only fit one way. They have an arrow on the bottom of the cap and it points towards the cam. How do you recommend the tightening sequence? Do you start at #3 bearing and work in circle? The torque is 115Ft lbs. Should you torque as you go to check for binding? Thank you.
Yes, this is true, they may only fit one way, but, and it's a big but, the bearing caps have to go back in their original order. That is, the bearing cap at the front end has to go back there, not moved to the center of the crankshaft. The rear bearing cap has to go right back where it came from, not at the front of the crankshaft. All those bearing caps have to go back to the position they were in when you removed them. Have you verified that?
I did. I marked them as I took them out. Also verified the number stamped in the center of the cap and they all matched.
I'm going to get some of this. Since I'm using standard bearings, shouldn't they be the smallest since The crank hasn't been turned, which would require oversized bearings?
If it was turned, I'd think there would be much slop with STD size bearings.
If you get it at the auto parts store, be sure to ask the parts guy for it that looks like he’s been there 30yrs. The 20 something kid behind the counter will have a deer in the headlights look when you as for Plastigage lol. Very few home mechanics rebuild engines anymore and the probably don’t sell much of it. Red or green usually covers most stuff I’m working on, but look at the package and make sure it will cover the clearance size you need.
When cranks are reground they are ‘undersized’ so non-standard bearings are usually referred to as ‘undersized’. Cylinders on the otherhand are bored ‘oversized’
If you ask for anything at a parts store and the young guy behind the counter looks dazed and confused.....ask if you can look up your own parts.
Reminds of the time I spent 30 minutes on the phone with a cat parts guy trying to help him find a part i needed. I told him I needed replacement tappets for a new cam I had. He asked would they be called anything else. I said "Could be cam followers, lifter, etc....".....then for the 6th time told him to find the cam, then find the pushrod....then order me 12 of the item in between them. He says "Oh, you mean that barrel looking thingy?" OMG!!!
I just love when I go into a parts store here (napa, autozone, oriellys, whatever...." and tell them I need a filter or some stupidly simple thing. The first thing they ask is what am I working on. I tell them it's not going to be in that computer.....and of course that doesn't deter them. I just handed ypu the filter or part number, you should be cross referencing that to find what I'm after. Well he'll no, I'm asked again what I'm working on. So I tell them "Its a Bomag BW211SD40". He asked me if that was a foreign car or something. I said find it on your computer, you've asked me 3 times now. "Well, that's not going to be in here." Yeah....no ****. I told you that 5 minites ago. By the time I left there I wanted to kill myself outside their main door as a warning to others.
Same with oriellys n àutozone here. The local Napa tho is a different animal. Give them a number and they either have it or the next day. Crossref no prob!
My napa is the same. Pretty good guys in there.
I've never understood the anger at the parts store guys, that's how the system is set up, they are just trying to do their jobs so we can do ours. Plus that's how the company tracks inventory and sends more commonly used parts to different locations. If you don't like the way they do it you could always utilize the NAPA filter finder and get your own numbers to take too them; its free and just one Google search away. I guess complaining about it is easier, after all, its just "some 20 something kid". Gosh, makes you wonder why there is a shortage of new blood in the industry.
Well, I’ll give kudos to the young counter gal at O’Reilly’s- had looked up item online and had number. Asked for A/C compressor oil. She asked “PAG?,” said “yup,” and she went right to it!
It's not anger.... maybe some well-earned frustration. I learned it from TS.
Some parts people are useless even if they've been doing parts for years. The parts manager at the Kubota dealer here is worse than useless. Doesn't know how to look up parts in a paper manual by serial number. Orders a temp. sending unit I wait a week for that's wrong. Take it back and the younger guy looks up the right parts book and it's in stock for less than half the price. I worked in a few welding supplies but I think anything parts related is the same. I blame the idiots that do the hiring. They don't want to pay for experience and hire people that have no idea about the stuff they're going to be selling. That's OK if they actually provide training and have someone knowledgeable to help them. Teaching them how to work the computer is not product training. Training needs to be ongoing because there's always new stuff and oddball stuff. Everybody claims they're top priority is customer service but in reality they have no clue what customer service means. It just looks good on their mission statement. They hire people who will work for a lower wage with no experience and throw them straight into the fire. It's a recipe for failure from the get go. It's really sad when they hire someone who really wants to learn and do a good job but is beyond frustrated because they get absolutely no support. Even worse are managers who promote people that kiss their *** but are lousy at their job, have no customer service skills, are rude to customers and coworkers and have no product knowledge. I've experienced that on a few occasions. One place had a manager with product knowledge but was a total a-hole to customers and coworkers unless they were related to him. I would have liked to kick that b*****d in the nuts a dozen times with a steel toed pointy cowboy boot! He was intimidated by me because it turns out he doesn't know as much as he thinks. Maybe a bakers dozen, 13 kicks in the nuts.
Plus the large end of a connecting rod & cylinder block crankways are both referred to as {Housing Bores}. They would have sent your wife a bill for hazardous waste disposal. * Plastigage was invented for people who had no measuring tools or knew how to read them. If main journals or crankpins are out of round----plastigage is useless. If a crank measures .010 under with a mic {it's .010 under, if the housing bore measures 3.000 it's 3 inch. screw the plastigage. Buy Starrett & take care of it and it will take care of you.
I agree but when doing an in-frame, plastigage is better than nothing but there is a correct procedure that has to be followed to prevent erroneous results when checking the mains. I’ve heard of a special tool for measuring main journals while still in the block but i’ve never seen one. A set of spring-loaded machinists calipers would kind of work but any measuring tool is only as accurate as the person using it
I would like to thank everyone that gave me advice on this post. I ended up getting another set of bearings. I took all of the ones that I installed out and I could see a few carbon deposits on a few. I sprayed all the journals out good with brake cleaner, etc. I didn't try to tap any of the bearings in this time, except for the last one (no oil hole on the crank). I use a screw in the oil hole to install. Tighten them all up and started torquing on #3 and moved in a circle. No binding and crank turned easy! I have all the sleeves and pistons in and crank still turns easy! Hoping to get the head on this week. I have the radiator getting re-cored.....going to be about 3k! That suxs! What do you think I should use for engine oil? Should I go with 30wt?
Years ago Starrett made a thin finger mic just for the occasion
Glad to hear! Oh, those older radiators sux. I had fun with one in a 175c. Made a new top for it.
Please explain the “I use a screw in the oil hole to install”? I’ve never heard of this method.
You stick a small screw in the oil port of the journal to use as a pusher. The head of the screw rolls the bearing out as you turn the crankshaft. You can install new bearings the same way. Its the old timers trick. I personally can do the same thing with less effort using a screwdriver.
Same as using a cotter pin hammered to the shape of a T, inserted in oil feed hole in crank shaft. Rotating crank by hand rolls bearing into position. Very old trick going back to the first years of insert bearings. Normally this is done to remove upper bearings, new usually slide into place.
Jinx!!!
Name of the game.
I think there are lots of times where 2 people are typing at the same time but 1 of them can put their thoughts down quicker. Sometimes you know how to do something but it's hard to write down how to do it so someone else can understand it. That's where a video could help but unfortunately some (a lot of) video's show how not to do something.
I only type & wipe with one finger.
One is OK, the other a little questionable??
Traction.
As long as you don't do burnouts.
I have gotten the wrong main bearings from Deere before.