So..... in another dilemma. Guy needs a 1ac pond cleaned up. Actually very minimal thickness of material being removed, but at 1ac, it will still be a lot. I originally thought NO as cleanouts turn into a soupy mess, but this one might have me well fooled. It has been dry for a while, floor is completely grown up in vegetation, and we walked the floor. It looked pretty good. Thoughts on a potential nightmare here? I don't usually do cleanouts because....well, you know. But we are super hot and super dry right now. As well, I have to find a way to get material out of this thing! There are berms around all sides and pretty aggressive. I am going to have to build a ramp to get out but there is zero way to run a wheel dump truck in this thing. My only options are a CTL or maybe a tracked dump truck? I keep getting in this bind where I can't get wheels on a job, and need to move more volume of dirt! I don't think 2000 cycles with a CTL is very efficient! Why doesn't someone make a damn rubber track loader with some capacity? lol
One of the Hydrema dumpers with flotation tires should work if they can be rented near you. I think CM has used them.
I'm very interested to hear more, if you take this job fastline. I've heard that pond floors hold moisture for a long time and I'm curious how this would go. One day I hope to drain my pond (not nearly as big as what you are talking about) to deepen it a bit and line it. Ideally, I toss some sheets of plywood in there and can do the work with the backhoe (neighbor has offered some bulldozing support as well) but I don't know how dry things need to be for the plywood to work as a float. I think the job could be done, from the edges, with an excavator but that's a rental price I'd rather not mess with.
Why not push it to one end with a dozer. Then load it into a dump with an excavator? Or push it to various spots and load out.
Our Cat dealer rents them. Worked pretty well but we were on rock.
Took forever (2weeks, but they paid) To clean out this pond with just a 35mini excavator and a ctl. was super sloppy the first foot or so but under that was solid ground. Only partially drained as the deep area was just too mucky. A tracked dump would have been nice but if you don’t mind hundreds of trips in the ctl it’s doable Edit: it was hot at the time tho... they had a pump running almost constantly to drain and dry things out. I’d imagine a dry pond wouldn’t be too sloppy
Watched as a D7F crawled into a Dry Pond that had been dried down for two years, when the first day was done the slop was Track Deep, and shoved much of it up onto bank sides where a guy on a CTL was loading dumps. By three days the muck was pretty well gone and the rails actually biting into solid soil on pond bottom, four days later the cut in the dam was refilled and graded off, new overflow was in and functional and as such allowed to refill.
As someone that has buried a machine in what should have been a dry pond bed, first thing you want to do is reach out a ways with the excavator and make sure the bucket hits bottom.
I'd like to know the size of that pond and what thickness of cut you made? For all, I should have added in my original post that the trip distance where I need to move the material is about 200ft. Due to the vegetation and average depth of cut at 1ft, I am estimating about 2000yds of material. With a CTL at a 1yd capacity, that is 2000 trips! That is a LOT of hours!!!!
It's nothing like that. If I put the bucket down, it will just pickup the machine. That's why I'm considering the job.
If your luck is like my luck the first day you track a machine in well it’s going to break a drought by bringing in Biblical scale rains
Sounds like you need a small drag line Me too I also need one
LMFAO!!! I can set my watch to it!!!
Turned out beautifully 673moto!
Quick google maps measuring on that pond give it just over 100,000sqft... which the conversion calculator says is 2.2 acres. ... but the pond didn’t seem that big in person. I’d say maybe 1.5 acre at most? Took about 1-2’ of cut but didn’t touch the center area. it was a lot of trips in the ctl but certainly not in the thousands!! I tried to use the better dirt to rebuild the banks and save time moving long distance. Dumped all the muck and cattails in a large pit the guy carved out with a dozer a couple hundred feet away. edit: I’d say since I didn’t touch the central area , it was probably around 3/4 of an acre that I actually played around with.
One complicating factor/variable in this one is apparently it was clay lined, then a bunch of sand was added. My job is to remove the junk down to the sand layer. Can't say I have ever seen a pond with a sand floor, but that could prove quite problematic loading a CTL. I don't know. As for the math, I know it is a touch over 1ac, with an average cleanout of 1ft. That is 1600cy plus decompaction, so I am figuring 2000cy. I don't personally think just using a CTL alone will work due to traction and lack of visibility to see if the cut is right. This all assumes it doesn't turn to complete **** once I start working in it.
Yikes! Clay lined with sand and you gotta be precise, don’t mess up that clay! Sounds like a headache... bid accordingly Definitely use your excavator to dig out and maybe have another guy in the ctl making trips back and forth? Better yet, think you could get a large skip loader(4x4 of course) to move what your excavator digs up? Will have to get a solid path for it to travel on tho
^ what he said I'd do all the cutting with the wide bucket and spin it around to the CTL.
This is what you need to work slop and soft (and steep) efficiently. About 4 psi loaded to the gills. 5-6 tons per load. Dump on side slopes - I've done 30 degree side slopes with 1/2 loads and a load of pucker factor till I got comfortable with it. Runs up 35 degree slopes easily and steeper downhills. I don't use it often but I've held onto it for special projects when I need it. Nothing starts faster after a long sit than a Yanmar. Worst thing is derailments in the slop like this mess below. I don't know of too many other ways to haul in riprap for water crossings nearly 3 miles deep into a TN bottom land swamp in December. A tracked dumper is a game changer for working in the wet and where materials need to be delivered over soft or steep ground. No reason to stop working just because of a little rain...
The other is a Marooka Sell them not far from here but not cheap
I looked at Marooka and others when I was in the market. The selling point for me was the forward and reverse controls of the Yanmar with a 180 swivel seat. I used the machine primarily for building foot trails and the controls allowed me to back the machine up the trail to the spreader with ease. Once the load was dumped and pulled, I would swivel the seat and drive forward back to the materials pile. This way, I never tore up a prepped trail and minimized the wear on tracks. Marooka only offered forward facing controls so they were not a viable option for my job. The best machines I looked at were the Komatsu swivel tops that were mounted on an excavator type chassis with a rotating upper structure. Too much money at the time but they sure looked to be efficient with a number of possible dumping styles. If you want to move material efficiently in wet conditions, it's hard to beat a tracked dumper no matter what style you choose.
Oddly, that is precisely what I was dreaming up in my fabrication mind. I am certain I could build a very serious wagon for the purpose, but I would have to have the need. I hit the guy with pricing figuring on just going with the CTL and have not heard back.....so likely just wasted time here.
If it's solid enough, an LGP pushing out to the edges and loading with the hoe is going to be your best option. Depending on how far you have to go with the spoil, 3 tandem dumps, excavator, and a D61 and you'd be done in a couple easy days.
Have cleaned out several with track hoe and tractor with pan. Start at the edge with hoe and back the pans in to it. Have always made it clear though that if I am cleaning a pond I am going down until it is solid. There is no just take the top foot off. Sometimes it's a foot and sometimes it's 3.
fastline. Where is the excavated dirt going? Are you spreading it onto the backside of the berm? The ramp is going to determine if you can get the dirt out loading whatever machine you can make work. When I dug out our dugout out here at the farm I had a Komatsu D57S track loader pulling away from my John Deere 590D but the ramp punched out over time so I ended up just using the excavator throwing the dirt up two three times. It took me 110 hours to complete the expansion.
LMAO, if you knew how I quoted this, I could not even buy the fuel.... People around here expect a new 1ac pond to cost $3K....lmao..... not really, but they certainly will find the cheapest guy with a longer line of bullshi8. I have people everywhere "wanting a quote" and I simply refuse to waste my time/fuel unless they are close. No one will give any clues on their budget, acting like they will save cash by holding. Hell, I went through the whole BS line on a 1ac, only for him to say "I thought you would be maybe 5-10K"....BRAH...you you simply dropped that on the first convo, you could have saved me so many minutes of my life.......
$5-10k for a acre pond? Do they only want it a couple of feet deep???
I'm thinking of $5-10k for my pond that is like a tenth of an acre or something and that's doing all the work myself! Granted, I hope I get it all done for that (if it ever happens), but that seems real cheap.
Last New pond quote I received for one up by the house, a little under a acre was $22,000.00 Finished to smooth grade not seeded on levee. MAYBE Next year.
Appreciate the info! I don't know the details of your pond but for me, depth is always a huge discussion as it is a massive factor in quoting one. However, I fail to see how someone can make much at 22K. I ran numbers on one job I did and realized by the time the dust settled, I was at $60/hr net. Some might think that is great, but my brain works quite different. I look at all the heavy iron, oil changes, hydraulic and mechanical upkeep, etc. I can grab my $1K bag full of HVAC tools and pretty much no name my price, but never below $100/hr. It could also be a sign that I am doing totally the wrong type of work. I used to build bridges, municipal storm sewers, etc. Highly technical stuff.
Site is inside a cove on a hillside slope, slope drops nearly 14' in fifty where spoil from above would form levee across inside bend(Cove) down 2 full terraces. Can get just at 1 acre in water and at least a couple regions over 12' deep Our home site, pond would be to West of Workshop along the Terrace head there and down past the fence corner that would end up changed https://goo.gl/maps/Az3NKKn5vMu8yXgG9
Nice looking place you have.
Thanks The "q" shaped field around the house is the SE Corner, if pan out to the full rectangle will see the drive into the lower field barn and the brome field to NW line corner. Two houses S SW, on some 24 acres split in two and Sheep farm North of our location with a large barren square is his feedlot. We have 78 acres. Fence on S side of barn drive to L shape grass field and woodlot alongside the Drainage creek is four acres belongs to Previous Owners son. HOPING that Soon he will want to sell and get away from here.
Nice chunk of land DMiller! How'd you convince Google maps that it's a park or whatever makes it green on the map?
Cemetery inside that green box, same for across highway, in actuality the cemeteries are cordoned off and have fence or some structure around them. Paul Dopuch is our County Surveyor, he noted the Grebe (On Our Place) and Ruediger(Across road) are defined as to how much area they have, less than 1/8 acre in plat books. Our place has his Survey stakes as to cemetery perimeter. The trees in a semi circle just south of the house is that cemetery. Seven known head stones, SEVERAL Yucca plants(Poor Man's Tomb Stone in the day). Directly across from our NE Fence corner is a Lone cluster of Trees, that is the actual Ruediger Cemetery
Interesting! Anyone ever come up looking for/at them?
Nope, but family names do survive here. Are cemeteries all along this old highway, used to be main road Hermann to Stoney Hill to Swiss. All changed over the years. I purposely take care of the plot, no need being called out for not and living here. Four major stones, two Child and one unknown as are seven burials known to be here.
That looks like what we really need for our pond reclamation. We are working on our 15-20 acre pond (descr. varies) and are learning how to get out into the muck. We cut the side dam last February, starting to dig it out now. Here is how we are moving around:
A few more:
Always looks worse while underway, looks all the much better when DONE!!
I would stick with the small machine idea. Then, if things go south, you won't end up with a mess like we did, years ago. Plus, this was AFTER the previous contractor had lost two Manitowoc 4600 draglines in the same pond.
DAMN!!
The other ruber tire option is a Bergmann and can be rented from Stone equipment. Fully loaded it has about 14 psi of ground pressure hauling 15 tons of material. Not always do you need a track truck for soft ground. Our truck will do 80-85% of what a track truck will do and faster, less operating expense.
Bergmann makes some neat machines. The swivel bed wheeled dumper looks like it would be really handy. Not sure what the 3 way dumper does. End, swivel and side dump? Dumpers from the expert: wheel dumpers and track dumpers up to 25 tonnes payload - Drain and road building - Applications - Products | Bergmann-Dumper
You are correct. It will dump left, right or rear. The operators seat also rotates to allow you to drive in and drive out of tight places easily. One project the 3 way would be handy would be interstate work and trying to maneuver between jersey barriers.
If you do bury the equipment in the muck, you can shoot a YouTube video of the Removal and make a ton of money. Add lots of drama, a grouchy owner and a clueless employee. Like that reality gold mining program.
Anyone notice the undercarriage on the crane ?
That is a very bad day. Wow.
They are not cranes ,they have dragline fronts on them. The undercarriage is standard on Linkbelt pipeliners . Bad Bob
It took us two long days to get that dragline out. Had to build a solid road out to it, since the levee it was on was rotten. Then it took a second day of digging, lifting, and pulling to finally get it out. I wish I had photos of the two 4600 Manitowocs and the Lorain they dumped in to the pond just 4 months earlier. However, I had not arrived at the site yet at that time. Jeff
I haven’t seen wheel loaders mentioned in this thread but they are commonly used for cleaning dams here. Given that most dams are used for long term water storage and built in water tight clay, you usually find a hard floor eventually. It is essential to build a suitable incline in the parent material and keep it dry. With this one we were tipping the mud past the bank and pushing it away with a dozer.