My septic tank is buried about two - three feet below the ground. I'm due to get it pumped, so I need to dig out the cover. Is it OK to use the backhoe to carefully remove some or most of the soil? Or am I risking damaging the cover, tank, etc? I obviously know not to drive over the tank as it won't support the weight of the hoe, but if I park to the side, can I dig? Thanks
Get a steel rod dig slowly and every few inches jump off and check for depth with the rod once your within a few " 's finish with your shovel. Scrape the surface off gently with the hoe when digging minimal down pressure.
some of the old tanks were built with concrete blocks,,, the tops were made of precast slabs about 2 feet wide and about 5 feet long, they break easley, ground will be soft down there stay at least 8 inches above with backhoe bucket, more shoveling is better than geting broke pieces out,,,,had neighbor put his wife in tank (true story, i saw her in there) GL
What Bill said, it is not worth the risk of damage to get to antsy with diesel and heavy iron. Once you have it cleared off, consider a riser kit, or at least bury it with easy material. I dumped a yard of course sand over mine 25 years ago and it is easy hand digging.
Slow and easy. Probe often and like others said finish with hand digging. Don't forget that some of the lids have built in rebar lift handles that stick up about 4".
^ +1 for the rebar handle thing. They are usually rusted about 80% through around here. you can break them off with a shovel, let alone a backhoe.
How old is your septic tank and what type of construction? Is it block, site cast concrete, pre-cast concrete or plastic?
I was young once. I put the tank there, I was going to remember where it was. Years later we put a patio over the tank. There once was 1' of dirt covering it, now there are two feet. I pumped it 4 years ago. I dug by hand & added three risers cut from 275 gallon fuel tanks. Now I have accurate measurements, need to dig 9" to the covers.
since the OP says 2-3 feet down I am betting it has not been exposed by the OP
We've dug up hundreds of tanks to check, repair, or pump in the past. You've gotten some good advice here. I'll add a few comments. -Do you have 811 in your area? Locators of utilities? Probably should call them. Free to have done here. -Scrape the area across with minimum down pressure. -Probe often. -What the tank is made of and the age factors into risk of damaging. -Some older concrete tanks were done without reinforcing wire, re-bar, low aggregate, and too much sand in the mixture. Any of these can weaken the lid so you want to be careful about pressure on it AND STANDING on any of the lids to clear it off. Seen many that if you just shift or bump, BAM! they go into the tank. -Sewer gases also eat at the concrete. I've seen tanks with cast in concrete T-pipe baffles that had good concrete and reinforcing wire that were corroded GONE above the water/solid level. -"Newer" concrete tanks with cast baffles have wire or rebar handles in the lid that a backhoe bucket will snag. Newer being 20-30 years old until now. They can commonly break before you get the lids out. Especially the wire ones. -Never seen a plastic tank here although I'm aware of them. -Seems I recall running into a steel makeshift tank once or twice. Garbage that should be replaced. Note that if you have a modern tank with an internal baffle. BOTH sides have to be dug up and pumped. Anyone only doing one side (typically the solid side) is misinformed, or more commonly, trying to cheat you by not doing a thorough job. Good luck! Be safe. J.C.
Whether bought or inherited somebody installed that tank at one time..
The modern 2 compartment tanks have a access cover in the middle that allow you to access both sides of the tank
Not here at least. The manufactures, following requirements of the state, put in what we called the "little lid" directly above the baffle for more of an air space between compartments. Seems I recall for bacteria aeration? Can't remember honestly. And other areas may have a center lid. A good pumping is opening up both sides, moving the suction hose around, washing down the walls with a water hose while pumping, and sometimes reversing the pump to blow the pumped sewer back in to break up in solids to pump them out.
My point is, he probably has no clue. They are usually mysteries until exposed. Here is an example. My dad and my sister hand dug one in 1960, was never pumped, and then they built a block wall and patio right over the side of it. When I went looking for it, it sure was not where anyone remembered it! I really doubt that dad intended to put the patio loads on it but he sure did, and only a few years later. I was looking for it to connect my sister's temporary trailer to it after the house fire. My grandparents were connected to it in the 70's with a single wide, then the pipe was cut off and lost. It also served a bathroom and laundry in an addition on the house. I seriously doubt it was ever permitted.
In Illinois the precast tanks have the opening in the center that have plenty of access to pump and wash down,have had my installers license for 30 years,can’t speak of other area’s of the country
I have a precast rectangular tank. It has an 24"X24" lid over the entry baffle and the outflow baffle. They have a steel cable loop on them for lifting. So, you wanna be dam careful scraping the lid with a backhoe in case yours has them. A 2 foot deep tank would be rejected by a inspector in my area. Most septic tank pumpers around me will uncover the access lids if they are shown the tank location. I know that for a fact after I called three of them for prices and asked about the access lids. A septic tank with a caved in lid is horrible mess to clean up. I cleaned one out for a friend once. The dirt that went in with the lid made it impossible to be pumped.
The house my mother lived in when we were kids had a steel septic tank. Had a grease trap off the kitchen as well. Dad found the septic with a bar the first time and us kids dug it out each time. He apparently knew it was steel and we were a lot lighter. We also got the job of digging the grease out of the grease trap each time. I dug my current septic out once and made a drawing with dimensions showing exactly where it is. It's about 18" deep and a pain to dig out. Had it pumped once. Pump guy said it should be pumped every five years. Cost me three hundred for him to pump it. I had lived here for about thirty years at that time so I told him I got a deal at ten bucks a year. By his math it would have been sixty dollars a year.
Seen them not be pumped for 30 years and looked in decent shape as far as solids in the tank. Seen others that were only in for a few years that were a mess inside and causing backups. Also seen some where the solids developed on top were so hard you could probably stand on it. No, we didn't. But we did have to break it up with a steel bar and lots of backflushing to get it broken up enough to pump and haul away. The health department in our area (the ruling body of installation and design) has a 5 year pumping recommendation for maintenance. But like I said, I've seen some go many more years and still look ok inside. A lot has to do with soil and usage.
I now pump every two years just to be safe. And I dig it myself so I know where it is. I’ll dig by hand to not risk destroying the tank. It’s 70 years old.
That had to be a fatberg, right? did it smell like tacos?
Lol. Actually, it didn't have much smell. Like a crusted shell. Dried out 8" or more on top. I know, odd. Now a 1,000 gallon or more grease trap? THAT smells!
yes they do, when fresh. I did a replacement where I had to pump and abandon a backwards 10,000 gallon interceptor. It was backwards, meaning the smaller side of the baffle was the inlet. So there was about 3000 gallons of water and grease to deal with, and it was many years in there cooking down so it was not the usual horrid stench.
There is no reason to pump a tank every two years. none. It does nothing for you. If the baffles are OK then you are good to go for pumping it " on condition" as described by the professional tank pumper here in the thread ( @JCinNC ). If you insist on pumping it so often, then I would strongly suggest a riser kit so you can just pop the lid and get it done. They serve the other purpose of keeping from driving over it.
Funny thing is that when my parents owned the house, they never pumped in 30 years. They were anally retentive about what they put down the drain, and the tank wasn't even full when I bought the house and pumped. What does on condition mean? How often should you pump?
The size of tank and no. of people living in the house + what you put down the drain has a lot to do with how regular the tank should be pumped. You don't want the sludge in the bottom to build up more than 1/3 of the tanks depth approx. 3' . Any deeper and it can get stirred up when clothes are washed and get into the drain field and plug it up. Like mentioned installing a riser or risers on the tank is always a good idea. You can check the depth of the sludge with a pole and a towel rapped around it by poking it in the rank down to the bottom.
Also check the thickness of the scum layer on top. You don't want the scum deep enough to run out into the field either.
All excellent advise!and don’t forget to add bacteria ( RIDEX ect) after you have it pumped!
If you put risers on it you can check the condition. take a hunk of small diameter pipe and probe for the heavy sludge level @Billrog is talking about and also check that top layer. You could check it every few years and I think you'd be surprised. You can probably run 10 to 15 years without any problems at all. Put that money in your pocket!
"On condition" means the solids that develop in the tank over time. The time interval for solids accumulation varies for each application so it can get aggravating to give blanket recommendations or have an ironclad equation. Think about it. Five people living in a 4 bedroom 4 bath house full time and have people over often will be putting more waste into their tank than two people in a 2 bedroom 1 bath house that don't entertain much. Meanwhile, these two houses will commonly have the same size tank. The 4 bedroom house may have a larger drain field/longer lines but the same tank. That's why you'll hear stories of not pumping in 30 years and things looking fine and another one not pumped in 10 years and tank locked up tight. Different use by different people. With that said, you don't want solids in your tank to become too abundant and begin to accumulate in the liquid i.e. outlet side. That can begin to overcome the outlet trap sometimes referred to as the T-pipe and go into your drain field. That begins to damage your drain field and then, in short, everything starts giving bigger and more expensive problems. You want to pump at a reasonable interval to protect your drain field lines. The drain field does the majority of the work. So my recommendation is work with your pumper and ask them about putting risers on both ends. It's even required in some areas for new installations now. Three foot deep is really too much to be practical and risers are more widely available. Sometimes you can even bring them to just below ground if you don't want to see them. Four inches of cover is a lot better than three feet for future maintenance. And as far as a pumping cycle? There's no perfect answer. 5 years seems to work pretty well. So plan every 5 years and if you don't have many solids at 5 years you might be able to extend it out to 10. Just have to check it good at the 5 year mark and see. One thing you mention that kind of flags to me is you said that the tank wasn't even full when you bought the house and had it pumped. If the house was being lived in, a tank, if not leaking, is ALWAYS full to the bottom of the outlet pipe. But that can be 12"+- down. Over the outlet pipe? Then you have more problems. But it sounds like your folks' system has been working well and should do the same for you. Hope this helps. J.C.
yeah that half full thing is a can of worms I wouldn't want to touch.
If you are sure of how deep it is, and your operating abilities, dig slow, and when you get closer, use the heel of the bucket instead of the teeth. As said above, when it doubt, poke around with a shovel. Had an old fella here. Retired now, Saturday morning digging close to a 24 inch forced main sewer line. " there's the stone, I'll shovel....move young fella, I'll just take one more bucket...." Glad I wasn't in the hole.
probably AC pipe too.
A healthy septic system really should never need pumping. There are enzymes hard at work eating away at the solids in your septic tank. Avoid pouring things like Draino and bleach down the drain. Mine is 30 years old, never been pumped a single time.
We were told it's good to get septic tanks pumped every couple of years or so they last longer without problems. Seems like it would be good for piece of mind. You don't want problems when it's -30.
Think of the definition of anally retentive, these people don't poop. When they do poop, it's in the form of burdening some poor service worker with an impossible demand. Oh, & the price better be less than free! These people don't use, or need toilet paper. Now, if we are discussing the practice of pi$$ing & moaning, the anal retentive don't do that in a toilet. They **** & moan on everybody who comes to shovel their snow, mow their grass, move their furniture, deliver their mail, haul away their trash, sweep their floors, & brush their teeth. No need for the anally retentive to pump. Their **** is given to the servants to take home with them.
I digress! I apologize!
Another thing that may be relevant to some here , no old pills down the drain eg. penicillin . the waste from anyone in the home taking chemo treatment will kill all bacterial action and require more frequent pumping.
You are correct. A "healthy" tank is in balance as yours and shouldn't need much, if any, pumping. I've found probably less than 5% operating in this balance though. The amount of use by the amount of people, soaps, other cleaners, chemicals, different paper products, etc. are used enough by the majority of folks that this isn't achieved.
Too funny!
I never knew that. In the 1990s the pumped "mound systems" grew exponentially. Those occupied by smokers had an alarming fail rate. Turned out, the spray holes in the leach field was just right for a cigarette filter to plug. Now they are required to have a filter to trap butts.
My last "backup" was caused by the filter sock on the outlet of the first tank. if I had just dug that end up and pulled the outlet baffle plug, cleaned it and put it back we would have been fine. There was nothing bad in the pump tank. Now I have a plastic box over the baffles so I can clean that filter periodically. We had been at least 10 years since the last pumping and it was not otherwise full. We have been here 26 years and two pumpings.
One other point I should make is that I have a separate field line just for the washing machine. That is a big part of it I suspect. The septic system never sees all that soap/bleach.
Here at least, old timers worried about what Mrs. Smith might use for laundry. Laundry & kitchen sink, even bath tub grey water did NOT go to septic. No one in my neighborhood put that in the septic tank. Everyone had a separate drywell. My drywell was an 8 foot deep hole. A ring of giant boulders were arranged, then smaller boulders to a height 18" below grade. Rail road rails supported the lid which in my case was an antique iron lid from a charcoal kiln. That worked fine 25 years until an addition on the house forced me to move it.
I let the pump guys dig it. I know where the tank is but they do this every day and know how to find the access cover. They usually dig out a 2 square foot hole and are right on the money. They aren't going to give you a discount for having it open.
A good metal detector was time saver for me.
Isn't it standard practice to have a pipe riser? I'm surprised to hear many tanks don't.
Never had one anywhere I've lived.
I have never seen one on any of the tanks I worked around.
Ok. Actually had to look up a riser meaning. Those seem to be a big diameter opening. I have a couple properties with septic, and they have 4 inch pvc pipe sticking up above ground, so we can pump out the tank if needed.
Wow Wille - I just thought I was an Appalachian Engineer! 24" manhole type risers are required in my area by code now, not so much in the past. All new septic installs have to have 2 accessible MH lids, most are the green plastic types. The tank pre-casters supply them.
We dug up one like that, but it was the hood off a car.
Some use the whole car. Saabs are a favorite. Put them upside down, they work quite a number of years.
Alright septic gurus, what should not be dumped down the drain? No antibiotics. Check. No bleach. Check. No antibacterial soaps or cleaners. Got it. Limit fats. No garbage disposals.
I don't mind pumping, but I don't want to have to spend money when I don't have to. My tank has rectangular openings, about four feet long, and about two feet wide. Can you get rectangular risers?
Those Swedes really knew sewerage technology!!!
Where does your clothes washing machine water go? That's what can really kill those desirable enzymes in the septic system.
The top part of a blue plastic barrel with a lid that is removable ?????? It would require sawing the concrete ones that are on it to accommodate the circular form of the barrel. Easy job if you have a concrete saw like my Stihl TS420.
emmett518 I've had new re-enforced tops made for a few older tanks like that which I replaced for customers. They come with plastic inserts right in the with lids but you have to buy the risers to accommodate the depth of your tank. You'd probably be looking at 3 or $400 to go that route. Your slabs may be at the end of their life span so it may be money well spent if that's the case.
Washing machine water goes into tank/field add bacteria a few times a year.
Additives of any kind are not recommended , the enzymes from your stomach are all that's necessary.
Bill how about this for a DIY: expose entire top of tank carefully. Dig beyond it 6" and down at least 3" all around tank top. Buck out the tank openings with bender board and 2x4 ( after getting it pumped ). put in a grid of rebar and pour a 4" top over the existing lid, that bears beyond the tank top that 6". I know that does not prevent the old top from falling in. Maybe some strategic anchors in the old top? After it is all set build a CMU riser out of the 6" wide blocks and set lids on that. ??
I've never seen tank openings as big as you describe. Mine might be 2' down to the tank. My tank has 3 covers. I took a 275 gallon oval oil tank & cut a third out of the middle. I cut each end to a bit bigger than the clean out holes in the tank. The three risers come to perhaps 9" below grade. They are covered by two layers of pressure treated planks. The whole thing is under a stone patio, so I can pump & restore like it was never disturbed all in one day. If yours are really that long an old oil tank isn't going to be big enough, maybe a log cabin lay with rail road ties or landscape timbers. Drill & spike the layers. Cover with treated planks, or what have you flat steel.
Pretty amazing to me that one of the busiest threads on the Heavy Equipment Forums is about septic tanks. lol. Anyway, some information if interested. For our area, "old" tanks (sometime in the 80's and back) were commonly around 1,000 gallon concrete with 4 concrete lids in some fashion similar to what emmett518 describes. They can all be square but also there were a lot with angled off end lids like in this picture. Anyone's best bet if they want a riser in square lids or angled lids like this is to purchase one already poured for it, or pour your own. It's not that hard if that's what you want to do. Get you a piece of plywood and some 2x4"s. Form the lid to the size you want on the plywood. Then form a square in the middle of that rectangular the size of the riser you are going to put on it. Be SURE to check your riser and make sure it will cover the finished hole completely. Use reinforcing wire and good concrete. Rebar is good for awhile, but does have a more rapid corrosion rate causing expansion, cracks, and often premature failure. This is a picture of an up to date septic tank lid from a 1,000 gallon tank currently approved for our area. Plastic handle that folds down. Less likely to snag it with a backhoe. How long will the plastic hold up? Time will tell... And finally, this is a version of a modern "short" riser. Risers like this are typically poured in 1' and 2' risers. Then there are short ones like this to make up a possible depth you run into where you just need a little bit more height. Risers can be stacked within reason to give you the desired height. So a 1' and 2' stacked can be stacked to give you 3' etc. etc. It may not show the size difference but this lid is larger than the tank one above and the riser covers the tank hole with about 3" to spare all around on the inside. You'll want to seal around all riser connections or seams with a good sealant. There are some tar based like tapes that are about 1" in thickness that are used. Also, troweled cement can work. Finally a tip. Make SURE that your tank lid is removed before installing your riser or that it will fit through the one you install if you elect to leave it on. And pull it out & set it back in lightly. Don't drive it in, step on it, try to make it tight. Why? It can be an S.O.B. to get them out! Especially 3' down!
Any medication’s that you’re taking can disrupt you’re system like chemotherapy drugs kills the bacteria also always good to introduce new bacteria from time to time.
they used to throw a dead cat in a new tank to get it started, or maybe it was alive, I'm not Schrodinger. Coffee grounds are supposed to be good as well.
@JCinNC everyone seems to have one so it seems like a good thread to me
Bakers yeast flushed down the toilet will do what you need as much or more than anything else.
Usta was they'd send a kid with a 22 to the dump for a bucket of rats. Wasn't hard to talk me into the task at the time.