I have recently purchased a BM4400 circa 1985 loader and I am having a few issues with the transmission when things warm up (20 mins of work). The transmission is reluctant to engage and when it does it is usually with a hard thud. When it does grab a gear it seems to have plenty of power, with minimal slip (will just spin the wheels). I have just replaced the trans and drop box oil and cleaned the suction filter. New oil I have put in is straight 30w about 22 litres and about 3 litres of 50w to top it up to full as I ran out of the 30w. There was some confusion with what is suitable oil, and im not sure if i have the correct stuff in there - volvo dealer here told me 10w40 and another mechanic told me straight 30w and another fella i know thought it should be 10w. I also have a transmission pressure light on when things are warm and no throttle is used. Upon initial startup the transmission behaves and shifts nicely (save for not going into 4th). The gear selector is all electronic. Thoughts / comments appreciated.
SAE 30 is ok if you never dip below 50 or 60F . If you have any suction leak at all, the pump is gonna have a hard time pulling oil up over air. 15w40 is what we use here in the states, it covers all your temperature ranges we would expect to see. Just make sure none of your external hoses are cracked/ sucking air. When time permits, I will dig a little deeper.
When you say you cleaned the suction strainer, did you remove the bottom cover and physically remove it? There's an o ring on that pipe to promote a tight seal. That feeds straight up to the lube pump driven by the torque converter. Be absolutely sure that is a good seal. On the left side hidden by the shift solenoids is a lube filter canister. Filter number 4787923. That could be why your tripping the trans oil light. Aside from that, it just sounds as though it is having a hard time getting primed first thing. Lighter oil viscosity and a filter change might be just what's needed.
There is a round cover that contains the drain plug that i removed. I pulled the suction filter out and cleaned with compressed air and brake cleaner. When i reinstalled, i just pushed the pipe back where it came from. it felt like a good seal but i never checked for an oring (felt like it pushed into a seal). Does a blocked filter bypass or would it prevent flow? I have a replacement, but i hadn't found where it belongs yet. What external hoses are you speak of specifically? is there any way to pressure test the system?
If you climb in ahead of the axle on the right side of the transmission and look forward you should see a large canister housing Below and behind the shift solenoid valve bank. That's where you are filter goes. F memory serves it's only about 1/2 bar that sense that sensor off.
ok thanks i will check it tonight. with regard to the oil, it isnt supposed to run atf was my bigger issue?
You could run ATF if you were in a subzero temperature a lot, otherwise 15w40 is fine
I suspect trash in the valve body of the transmission. If you say it takes a while to select a gear and then when it does it's pulls strong. Then I believe that you have some sort of debris in the valve body. If you have a bad pump and low pressure then it would slip. if you have a clutch pack with a blown piston seal it would be slow to engage, but it will slip. if you have changed the oil and filters and still have the same problem. Then that is where I would start looking next. I say this from experience. Had a similar problem with a zf transmission. Boss told me to pull the transmission so he can open it up and fix it. I asked him if we could pull the valve body first because that's where I thought the problem was. I only wanted to look there first because the customer said he had this problem after replacing the pressure sensor and stripped the threads. Long story short. I pulled the transmission. Boss opened it up and found nothing wrong. I then meticulously went through the valve body and found a small shard of steel in a orfice of the valve body. Put some pressure gauges on it. If you have good pressure readings then I would really suspect problems with the valve body. Good luck and I hope that this will point you in the right direction. post a serial number and I might be able to help you with more technical information about your transmission. The machine is old and I'm not sure if prosis will go back that far but I can try.
Ok. a few more things i will need to check. It also doesnt seem to engage 4th gear, not that i need to use it. Doest the fact that this only happens when it is hot rule out some issues like sucking air etc?
Ok so further to the above, I have changed the trans oil for 15w40, new filter as well. The oil that came out was surprisingly black given it has done less than 50 hours. Would this be indicative of excess slip in the transmission, and what can I do about it? Additionally, the transmission issue hasnt gone away once things heat up, so i can rule out oil and filter. thanks
Does it smell burnt? If so then yes excessive slippage will cause heat and burn the oil. And if that's the case then it's rebuild time. Nothing to fix that other than new clutches and seals. I would replace bearings and go through the torque converter as well (bearings and seals also). Also have the transmission cooler sent out and cleaned. Heat is a transmission's worst enemy.
So this is a cab off box out job... no good. Is it something that i can do myself? The only place that i know of within driving distance wants $15k to rebuild my box.
That's a question only you can answer. I don't know your skillset or what tools you have.
Sorry, to be more specific, I’m quite handy with a spanner. Question is can I rebuild the box myself or am I stuck with the 15k rebuild
If you have ne never done a job like this before then I wouldn't recommend it. If you have access to the service manual and have the rebuild procedure then do what you feel comfortable doing. But I will repeat if you haven't done anything like this then I wouldn't recommend it.
Ok well that counts me out. I haven’t got the experience let alone the manual to be ripping a tranny apart. 15k is a lot of cash though. The Australia tax.
Have you looked for salvage components. You may find used take outs for much less. I don't know how it is where you are, but that's big business in North America.
I have only found one machine in Australia being wrecked and it’s that way because it had transmission problems. The parts people I have spoken with suggest that my only option other than rebuild would be to import one. That kind of stuff, if available is drug money generally here. If the transmission was common to other otr it is possible that I can find one however I haven’t a clue if that is the case.
Either I or one of the other fellas with access to the parts catalog will look it up to see what else it fits in. Hope to have an answer for you tomorrow.
Post the serial number and I will look it up for you.
Ok so the numbers I can find... 4400 33200 2171 (stamped below)
VOE30816 That is the part number for the complete transmission.
I can get you all of the parts diagrams and the parts number list. But I can not find any info other than parts. This machine is not in the system. Maybe a good parts man could tell you more about this transmission.
Thanks very much Paul. I haven't had any success getting any information on my machine. Most people seem to either not recall or give me the 'its too old' response, which, given the age, is probably fair. What i really need to know I guess is if that transmission was used on any later model machines. That way it may be possible to source a replacement without going down the rebuild path. The problem that I have now is that it is a 15k machine, and to drop anoth 15k on it will not make it a 30k machine.
Antz, not sure what part of aus you are in, but " Highway Tractor Spares" in Victoria are very good on second hand Volvo equipment parts. I have dealt with them for years and have no complaints at all. Ask for Craig or Michael
Hi Mark I spoke with them yesterday. Whilst very helpful, they can only offer a rebuild for me. They haven't got any other solution unfortunately.
OK,if I come across anything I will let you know
Awesome.
The only thing I can add to Paul's reply is that the same trans fits in the 4300 as well. It seems to be very limited in application.
Yes it does. On another note, where are the transmission solenoids located? i must be blind because i cant seem to find them anywhere.
valve group on side of transmission I don't have a lot of information for this model others may be able to help
is powershift Automatic? I dont think i have that box... im presuming that this would be located on the left hand side fuse box area? Little hard to tell from that picture.
Yes, your solenoid bank is barely accessible from L/S engine compartment. There is a cover usually retained by two 1/4" hex screws or thumb screws. This same style trans was used up until the D series wheel loaders. Once you get the cover off, there is usually a legend inside that lists which solenoids are energized in which gear. Most often, in my experience, the wiring insulation crumbles, you'll have to be very careful or you'll be building yourself a harness. The ECU is in the door that houses fuses and relays by your right knee I can't confirm, but I believe we can use troubleshooting and service info for B-D series loaders.
Ok so to be clear, as I sit in the loader, on the left is a fuse bank, and the cover has a legend. On the top of this is a cover. Underneath has some relays etc and there is a legend of sorts on the underside of this cover. On the right side is also a cover, retained by two thumb screws. This looks to be a storage compartment. Below this are the bucket levers and the third function lever, in my case for rear rippers. What I can’t find is any control box of sorts or the solenoids. The wiring for the transmission looks as though it runs from the hand switch / lever to the left fuse box. From there I’m struggling to find where it goes to.
Should be a couple thumbscrew holding the hinged door that all your fuses are in the ecu should, if memory serves, be on the back of that panel. Should have 2 connectors and a screw in 2amp fuse.
I haven’t checked behind the fuses, but thanks for the info. I’ll have a look tomorrow. The loader seems to jump out of gear sometimes, in particular when I’m on an angle, and a short would explain that. This would be in addition to the other transmission issues I’m having.
I can’t find this ecu. Where the fuses are there is only sheet metal behind the 2 fuse banks. There is a lid above this that has 2 thumb screws. There are a heap of relays under that, but no ‘ecu’ that i can see. I also think that i now have a loose wire in the gear selector lever as there is a wire floating around in there in attached, and I don’t have 1st gear now. Only 2nd and third. Does any one have a wiring diagram for the gear selector lever? Thank
I known that this will not help much, but it can give you some idea of your components locations. Volvo dosent support this machine with any technichal data only parts. You may have luck by contacting volvo construction equipment.
Ok thanks.
Brains trust, I finally got around to putting a pressure gauge on the transmission cooler port today. What seems to be happening is that when the transmission disengages when hot, the pressure drops, like a relief valve has let go however when the engine is revved up the pressure resumes back to where it was, about 11 psi. Now im not an expert, but surely this kind of pressure drop cant just be attributed to just worn seals? Thoughts appreciated.
Hi all, further to my previous post, I thought it may be important to add the following details (and hope for comment..) The transmission oil does not appear to be getting hot. It has been changed and is clean. I have reconnected the factory trans temp gauge and it seems to correspond to an ir thermometer both at the sender location at at several other locations around the transmission, and I am happy that the oil is not overheating. The transmission 'drops out of gear' at operating temp, approximately 68c, at idle. The transmission will disengage at idle, however, does engage fully with some throttle. There is no lack of power - It engages with an obvious thump This furthers my thought that the transmission itself is not cactus. Is there some sort of valve that will return to tank or similar that may be effected when hot? Perhaps a spring, relief etc? I have (a while ago) changed the filter, and cleaned the pickup in the trans, and not convinced that either of these are the problem. Thanks in advance
I have an ex military Volvo 4400 and would like to know the availability of spare parts.
Volvo BM 4400 owners can acquire a manual from the site below. The manual is an electronic version, emailed to you. I have dealt with this site previously, they provide what they say they will provide. Download VOLVO BM 4400 WHEEL LOADER Service Repair Manual Download VOLVO BM 4400 WHEEL LOADER Service Repair Manual VOLVO BM 4400 WHEEL LOADER SERVICE AND REPAIR MANUALCOVERS ALL MODELS & ALL REPAIRS A-ZTHIS IS NOT GENERIC REPAIR INFORMATION! IT IS VEHICLE SPECIFIC. THIS IS THE EXACT SAME MANUAL USED BY TECHNICIANS AT THE DEALERSHIPS TO MAINTAIN... www.heavy-equipmentmanual.com For old Volvo equipment parts in Australia, I have found the following company quite good for older Volvo parts. I have a client who owns a BM 4400 locally (in the wheatbelt of W.A.) and I found a new water pump for his 4400 from these people, they had one on the shelf. Just keep in mind these BM 4400's are 40 yrs old and older, so you're not going to get any help from Volvo. Earthmoving & Construction Equipment Parts Supplying Genuine and OEM Quality Replacement spare parts for the earthmoving equipment market is our business. www.sourcemyparts.com.au Angus005 , I would imagine you're well placed to acquire BM 4400 parts in the U.K. Look to old Volvo suppliers in Sweden, and to MOD surplus dealers in the U.K.
I have a hard copy of the workshop manual, both the general one, and the transmission. Neither of them are really any help, they only run through removal and rebuilding of the trans, not any troubleshooting. I can confirm Source My Parts are good to deal with, and usually a lot more affordable for parts than the local Volvo CE dealer.
I have started looking at the solenoids. There is some suspect wiring to repair which was giving me a low ohm reading on the S1 solenoid (compared to the others of the same brand / type), and as this solenoid always has power when in any gear, this may have something to do with my problems. Process of elimination i guess. The coil on this also has a crack so im going to swap it with the 4th gear solenoid. If anyone can point me in the direction of a new coil that would be great. Currently awaiting a price for a new one from supplier. I would also be grateful for any tips on removing an d cleaning the valve body, looks as though I will have to remove all the coils to get it out. As funwithfuel pointed out, the wiring insulation is not in a good way after 40 years. I have already had to make a new harness from the cab to the solenoid bank. I ended up pulling the rear wheel and the trans filter housing to get access, it is way to painful without doing this.
So the investigation has continued further, and i think that there is a wiring issue with the gear selector, which may explain why 4th gear has never worked (always stayed in 3rd when either 3rd or 4th was selected). This leads me to wonder if there was power going to a solenoid that it wasn't supposed to, could this cause the low pressure in the transmission, bleeding off pressure somewhere when it shouldn't be? The investigation continues....
So wiring has been fixed, I now have 4 gears however I still have the same drive issue. Transmission and converter pressures are in spec at wot as per the manual however at idle they drop away considerably, getting worse as the oil warms up. Main pressure is 185 psi at wot, but drops to 60 psi at idle, and that is when the trans drops into neutral. Im guessing the torque converter is no good and dropping pressure when the oil warms up? Any thoughts??
Antz, I'd be examining the condition of the pump before tearing into the transmission. Also, it could be an internal o-ring partly blown that is dropping the pressure. An o-ring under a valve body?
So the only external pump is for the steering and hydraulic. I am absolutely convinced that the trans isn’t buggered, but I can’t work out why it would drop pressure at low revs, but be fine at full revs. Machine is too old to warrant removal of the trans but I’d sure like to work out what the problem is. Next step will be to remove the valve body / solenoids and do what I can to clean it. That will also involve making another loom, the factory wiring is not in a good way when disturbed
The symptoms indicate that adequate pressure is capable of being produced when the revs are up, but is being lost when the revs are down. That indicates leakage - either via excessive pump clearances, or by a leak in the system that is supposed to hold adequate pressure at low rpm.
It seems like it is bleeding pressure somewhere, I just don’t have the knowledge to work out exactly where at this point. I can’t believe that the trans is buggered if it does what it is supposed to do at full revs, and pressure readings are ok.
And further to your comment ozdozer, what pump would be ‘leaking’ ? Only pressure I see is from converter or lube pump, and low lube pump pressure wouldn’t cause the symptoms as far as I know.
There should be a main transmission pump supplying pressurised oil to the transmission and torque converter. If it's a powershift transmission, it requires high oil pressure to keep the clutch packs engaged (as evidenced by your "185psi" pressure reading). This is not normal lube oil pressure, lubricating oil is normally bled off from the main pressure line/s at lower pressure. If the required high oil pressure drops, the clutches either slip, or the system has pressure-drop protection, and it drops into neutral to protect the transmission/converter from damage.
Here are some pictures from the manual. The main pump is within the torque convertor assembly (I think). There is a seperate lube pump housed within the transmission (I think). The third image gives me more food for thought re the solenoids and possible problems when one or more warm up.
Well, if you have the transmission manual, you're all set. The descriptions and schematics are good and the instructions are clear, so it's only a matter or reading and re-reading until you have a good grasp of how it all works. It is often difficult to figure out where pumps are located, though, especially when they're positioned internally.
The manual is ok for pulling the transmission apart and putting back together. Unfortunately, the only diagnostic information it includes (other than the pressure tables) is "If it's f*#ked, replace it", and that isn't terribly useful for me.
So having removed the valve body,cleaned, new seals & o rings, replaced a couple of solenoids, and rewired everything, Im back to square one. If anyone has any suggestions of any wreckers any where that would be appreciated.