Hi all Just wondering what peoples opinion was of the T450D and if there are many about? I've got one due in for breaking but there aren't any in this country and I have seen one before I was wondering what peoples opinions were?
I've heard of a few running out in Saskatchewan, Canada that have been used with pull-pans for scraping. They seem to be getting more and more popular, however, currently they seem to be a hard power-unit to get a hold of. I'll see if I can dig up some images for you online and post here.
I found some images online for you. Seems to be from an outfit out of Alberta, Canada - Hoban Equipment running the T450D's with K-Tec Pull-Pans.
ShakeK that's a great photos for Wild777. Not familiar with this machine, but it looks great.
Cheers shanek they're good pics, reading back I made a typo error I meant to say I've never seen one before, Odd looking machine, well I'll see when it turns up and I start dismantling it
I think the weight transfer to the power unit would be better if the hitch was placed over the rear wheel rather then at the rear most point on the machine. The turning radius would also be much better
I am just curious of why these would be better than a standard scraper. I don't know much about scrapers other than a few days in a ts14. Whats the advantage of dozer pull pan vs something like that or a ag tractor with a pull pan vs your standard open bowl scraper?
$$ They are a lot cheaper to run than the standard self-propelled ones. You can pull more than one (though you need a good chunk of land to load, turn, etc... and no steep inclines when loaded) The lower profile ones with 4 tires (ie JD bowls) can handle a pretty decent side slope too. The tractor can multi task outside of pulling the pans. Dozer ones are good in really wet/short hauls. I've never run the "true" pans, but I've heard and can believe that they are still much better at what they do that a glorified farm tractor.
Yeah, that is an interesting thought. Are you suggesting more of a gooseneck design that would tie into the rear frame of the Volvo?
Yeah, that is an interesting thought. Are you suggesting more of a gooseneck design that would tie into the rear frame of the Volvo?
Never been a fan of wanna be earthmovers, just a couple first glance faults are the operator is to far from the cutting edge to see what's happening also look at the ground clearance in the bottom pic and how easily it would be to get stuck. I know I'm old school
Good point DPete. My first thought was what is the advantage of this rigg? If it had a dump bed that could be quick mounted on it for other hauling tasks it might be handy for some people. www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9118411
Hi all just a quick update, the scraper arrived this evening and I got the full story, my boss bought it from the test and development centre in Sweden it's actually the original prototype they built, it's mint, 500hrs on the clock, and you could eat your dinner off the floor. The scraper bowls have only ever been used (from new) around the test and development centre so have very little wear on them, I was completely shocked when It turned up, I was expecting some rusty old nail and then this turned up I now the pics ain't great (if they post ok) I'll try and get some better ones tomorrow
Wow - Impressive power-unit! Nice to see that thing in real life! What brand/size of scraper bowls did you acquire? Would be great to see pics of the full set-up once you got 'er hitched together
I am suggesting a conventional scraper design that gets the bowl right up behind the power unit with good visibility of the cutting edge and transfers weight right to the drive tires which means the pivot point needs to be right over the wheels or just a short bit behind it. Europe has never been big scraper country so this is an attempt to make a power unit try to do something it wasn't cut out for.
here are some better pics, the bowls havent arrived yet ive only seen pics so not sure, when they arrive ill definitly get pics if we hook it all together, we've decided yesterday it's to good to dismantle we are going to try and sell it first, then if there's no interest we'll dismantle it
You're a bit off the mark there, Greg. There were some sizeable fleets across Europe and the UK in particular from the 50's until the early 90's. One issue here is weather, not many users here can stand a fleet for sometimes 4 months of the year when the weather deteriorates. There are still a few tractors and boxes working here in niche markets, and a few motor scrapers at the power stations, where I expect this Volvo would excel.
I don't know of many applications these will work in efficiently. I've watched these work and it's interesting to say the least. Looked pretty expensive to me. One wants to watch them and then draw your own conclusions.
The opinion on these is mixed then, I had a drive in the unit today, it wasn't all that bad, a bit different due to the shorter rear frame and has surprising good visibility from the cab I thought Here's some pics of the bowls,
Hi guys I have 4 Miskin D19 pull scrapers and have been running them for 3 years and have the following comments: 1.0 Excellent ground clearance have never had an issue with low ground clearance. 2.0 Simple construction. I'm in Australia and we have been able to get parts fabricated here however nothing much has gone wrong with them. 3.0 An advantage is that we can run multiple pans. We have been running 2 pans behind a Challenger tracked tractor which can load itself no problems 2 x 19yards3, we also run 2 of the same pans behind a John Deere 9520 which also loads itself no problems however not as fast as the Challenger. 4.0 The advantage of the JD9520 over the challenger is that some times we top load the pull scrapers with the excavator and the John Deere has a higher top end speed which is an advantage if its is running with dump trucks as it doesn't slow them up where as the challenger does. However one of the reasons we run the pull scrapers in with the dump trucks is to maintain the haul roads, we do this by just dropping down the bowl and opening it up so the material is always up to the cutting edge and this levels the road however we are traveling slower so the dump truck go around when we do this. The Miskin is good at for this because it has long leading edges each side of the cutting edge so you hold a lot of material there to fill in the holes. 5.0 NOW for the VOLVO T450D we bought one of these to give it a try. This rig can pulls 3 Pans that means one man is going to shift 75 tonne or 3 x 25 tonne trucks and if you are building roads you don't have to push it over at the other end. We haven't run the Volvo Tractor yet as we are having a hitch fabricated which means January 2014 is when we will trial the machine. 6.0 Some advantages of the pull scrapers over a conventional cat scrapers is that the 1.0 Ride is smoother for operator hence less fatigue 2.0 Miskin ground clearance is better, I can not comment on other brands. 3.0 They are cheaper to buy and run. 4.0 The Miskin has 4 wheels across the back which means they don't form ruts in hauls roads, its cheaper to replace a smaller tire and the tire is more likely to be in stock and when dumping your load the tires compact the ground such that we have a reduction in roller usage by 60%. Tractor units are low ground pressure and will still work where conventional scrapers will be bogged. 7.0 Disadvantage Shifting from job to job, second pan has to go on separate load and you need a machine - loader or excavator to load and unload on each end. that was for you DPETE PS Wild777 have you got our Volvo T450D running?
PS Wild777 have you got our Volvo T450D running?[/QUOTE] Purring like a kitten !!!
Does it load by itself and in what type of material - Clay?
If you go on you tube there is a film of our challenger working. link below. http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjW0lkdroSPoNjQzqMuX8vQ/videos
To cut a long story short this is the first machine to come into the UK, and not knowing anything about them except there is a lot of switches and dials in the cab, I thought I'd start this thread to find out some more info about them and what people think of them, how's your going?
We are still waiting on the tow hitch to be fabricated, hoping before christmas, once that is fitted then we will try the unit out.
Fair enough, it'll be interesting to see some pictures if you can, when she's hooked up and running?
No worries i will have my guys make a film and post it
I'm certain I read recently Volvo CE recently bought a pull pan manufacturer. IIRC it was Ktec. Pretty sure I saw it in Equipment Journal a couple months ago.
Volvo didn't purchasing anyone. It's simply a joint venture so that some Volvo dealers can sell K-Tec pans and their trucks will still have warranty when they are rigged up to pull a K-Tec. The article about the press release is here .
Thanks farm boy for that link and information much appreciated.
Yair . . . So okay fellers, what am I missing here, that setup with the drawbar hitch looks horrible. 6 wheel (6x6?)ADT's hauling goosenecks have been around for a long time and I thought were a proven concept . . . is this an exercise to prove a "conventional" scraper can be operated with the little four wheel unit? Cheers.
Well I'm missing your point, please define your interpretation of 1.0 ADT's hauling goose necks? What is the goose neck (Brand, make) that your are referring to that is proven? Have your any pictures? 2.0 When you refer to a conventional scraper, I would of thought you would be referring to a caterpillar 613 or 623 type of arrangement which has 4 wheels, based on that I cant interpret your question. Regards
Yair . . . simonroadman . Sorry mate I didn't make myself clear. I saw an article about the gooseneck hitch being developed by Volvo in Europe some years back and I believe it has been taken up by several manufacturers I think one in South Africa and several in the 'States. A purpose built arrangement that seems to work . . . there was a thread I think on HEF where a fleet of them were working in Dubai digging fish ponds. The point I was making was that the set up on this thread looks ungainly and appears to be an exercise to prove the four wheel hauler can pull a "conventional" tractor drawn scraper, which is fair enough if it can . . . I assume it is a purpose built unit for scraper work. Cheers.
I have some conventional pull scrapers running in a dual bowl configuration and they work fine. Each one of the bowl carry 26tonne plus, subject to material density. I pull these scraper with a conventional tractor and they self load fine and visibility on the first bowl is excellent. An associate has conventional scrapers and his unit require a dozer to push for loading however the main benefits of the pull scraper are the ride is smother (less operator fatigue) and they don't ruin the hauls roads. As for the above unit the payload is larger than one of my single bowl but it probably the same as a the dual bowl set up, visibility of the cutting edge may be a problem on the above unit but putting these functional advantages and disadvantages aside I guess the reason for their creation is a means for the non caterpillar manufactures to get a piece of the Caterpillar dominated scraper market and to get more of their product out here in what ever form it takes. If you consider purchase price of new units. Dump truck $550K AUD + Pull Scraper $250k. This would be cheaper than a Caterpillar scraper of equivalent carrying capacity, however you do have the versatility to run it as a dump truck if you put the body back on. But I don't know why you would as pull scrapers can be top loaded like dump truck and you don't have to knock the stock piles over at the dump locations. If you are interested here is a link where you can see some of my pull scraper working http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPc14iFosOs By the way, to all of you earth moving sick heads who just can't stop! and can be liken to an Australian Kelpie and now you are at home on Christmas Holidays however end up on a computer reading about earth moving **** because you are addicted. Merry Christmas!!
I think that a conventional scraper should do the trick. You only need to place it right side up and cut some of the parts that are not necessary. Regards Rod DPF Delete
Looks like this gooseneck concept has been made for the T450D. This would enable a tighter turning radius and the use of Joystick Controls in the cab. There's a Redhead decal on the truck, which means that this unit is likely running in Saskatchewan.