So I am working on rebuilding the water pump for my dozer it’s this one I bought the impeller assembly 3s6607 and it looked fine but there was a lot of resistance with the shaft that has to go through the hole at the center of the impeller assembly and I broke the ceramic or plastic ring it was very flimsy I was being careful but I did use my plastic mallet because it wouldn’t fit now it looks like this This is old stock oem and the impeller is a bit rusty but maybe the white ring around the opening was brittle from being old stock and who knows under what circumstances this thing was thing was kept stored etc. Btw the impller part number is 8h9239 not 3s6607 everywhere I looked I kept getting 8h9239 I Cant see on my old impeller the first numbers its too rusty and damaged but the last two number printed on the old impeller are 39 Also there is a seal assembly I forgot to order 2l5031 so my question is if the impeller is no good anymore or if maybe this white ceramic thing is not really necessary because I thought it was extremely brittle can’t imagine a ceramic ring being installed inside a dozer lasting more than a couple days knocking down brush etc Or maybe I shouldn’t have ordered old stock caterpillar? If I have used sandpaper maybe to work the surfaces of bothe the shaft and the impeller hole this wouldn’t have happened maybe So not sure what to do now any advice would be appreciated Thanks
Impeller is done that is a ceramic ring that the carbon seal seals on impellor is pressed on to leave a specific gap between fins and housing
Appliance repair and parts store might be able to help you. The seal probably fits lots dishwashers, washers ect. That ring is what the seal rides against, against bare cast iron impeller it won't last long although that's how some water pumps were when I was still wrenching. A good parts store will know if that piece is available. Joe H
Stuck your seal number in search and first thing up is this ebay seal that looks like it may have that impeller shim https://www.ebay.com/itm/301752540991 Joe H
so I can just glue the new ceramic shield to this old impeller with like super glue or something? I think I will buy a new impeller because this old stock impeller looks a bit rusty
We always replaced the impellor when we damaged ceramic and I would have no idea where you could get another ceramic
I did the water pump on the D330 engine in my 922 loader and the new genuine impellor came with the ceramic side of the seal already attached to the impellor. Then it just fell off. I think I put it back on with silicone gasket goo. Only Cat parts give Cat performance... Right?
Those seals are also in garbage disposers with the same rub ring. I'd buy the ebay kit and see what you get. That impeller looks fine to me. Joe H
Ok thanks! ill try to glue a new ring to the impeller I got with the chipped ceramic ring, maybe high temperature epoxy will work i will google whats best, I finally bought a shop press the stupid ceramic ring broke because I tried pressing the impeller into the shaft using a rubber mallet, big mistake thanks!
Surprised you didn't break it, they're brittle. Joe H
Thanks for the advice Joe I found a ceramic seal it’s called “mechanical seal” I think it’s a bit thicker but I think it will work I used my press to see if it fits right or if it was too tight it looks ok to me hehehe thanks this website is amazing So I will just use atv silicone to glue the ceramic ring to the impeller I will leave it to set slightly pressed overnight using the shop press
I built a lot of 3304-3306 water pumps and the seals were glued in with " some super glue with Cat name ". I think the ceramic use to go on with rubber boot under if I recall, maybe the ceramics come as part of impeller now. Simon C
If that white piece is what your calling a mechanical seal it's way too thick. When you press it together it will break the ceramic seal that rubs on it and stop before it's together. What came in the seal kit? It can't be that piece, it won't work. Look at your picture of the original piece that broke. It's how thick, looks like flat washer thick. Joe H
Yeah no the impeller had a 3mm thick ceramic ring that I destroyed by accident because I didn’t use a shop press at first to insert the shaft end into the impeller, but there is some clearance of about 1 mm for when the parts heat up and expand, as I am understanding this is tip of the shaft presses into the impeller with the seal then there is another seal for dust and coolant the the shaft gets considerably thicker and it serves as a stop for the components up to that point so I am imagining I may be able to make it work if not then I guess will just rebuild the stupid water pump again ahahahah it’s got to become evident before installing everything back into the dozer if it’s going to work or not I’m just using the dozer around the farm like 5 to 10 hours per week not going to build a pond or do construction or anything
There's no clearance in there, the white piece against the impeller rides on the seal. The seal (next piece in your picture) has a spring that pushed the carbon seal against the white piece. You put the seal in the body of the pump (a tiny bit of silicone there) and then press the impeller on. The way you have it that big white piece is going to destroy the seal before the impeller is all the on. Again, what came in the seal kit? Where did you get that white piece? Joe H
Ohh so I bought the seal from the caterpillar dealer it’s the carbon ring with the spring and the silver lip, I bought the impeller old stock caterpillar from eBay, it had a 3 mm thick ceramic seal ring glued on but I destroyed it because I didn’t have a shop press and I was using a hammer instead and I was watching YouTube it was a big mistake ngl So then I bought here in this stupid town where I live at the hardware store this ceramic ring 8 mm thick and it came bundled with another carbon seal with a spring and a silver metallic lip So what I’m understanding is that at some point during the assembly process the carbon seal is gonna get destroyed? I’ll try it this way because otherwise I would have to order eithrt another impeller or the seal kit from eBay that comes with a spare ceramic ring (who knows how thick) and then I have to drive 3 hours each way to my mailbox location that I rent in the us I live in Mexico
That white thing goes here, there's no way something thicker is going to fit. Order the ebay kit and go get your mail. There's no guarantee the impeller wonk break again when you try to crush that together. Joe H
A word of caution fellas, don't touch those mechanical seals with bare skin, apparently can cause some huge health problems very similar to viton seals that have been in a fire. Was told this year's ago when I was reconditioning a jet drive pump .
Your third option which probably is not feasible for you is to turn down the impeller on a metal lathe and inset the thicker ceramic seal by 5mm into the impellor.
yeah you were right so I finally understood whats going to happen with the 8mm thick ceramic ring that I got it wont work because There is going to be a 5 mm gap between the pump housing and the back plate so... big problem it will be impossible to install obviously ok so ill have order a new impeller, there is one that seems to have a copper or brass ring its aftermarket, not sure if i should go with aftermarket old stock again because who knows if the ring is going to fall off or not Ill post more photos when everything is done this is so exciting I have never rebuilt an old water pump thanks! Jose
No bin it ,the ceramic is the seat for carbon seal
What's happening? Pump done ? Joe H
No, I broke a new aftermarket impeller with the press but it was too beefy it wasn’t a good fit it had a copper ring instead of ceramic tried to jb weld that ring to the other impeller old stock oem but it was again too high up the aftermarket design had a recessed seat around the middle but still it was too beefy I tried to continue the assembly with the broken impeller to see what other problems could come up and the back cover wasn’t sitting flush maybe the aftermarket seal I got is wrong too I’ll order new parts again today The impeller that was inside the housing is considerably smaller but it’s probably for decades of use with water instead of coolant I googled more parts diagrams and used acomoc I am sure these are the right parts, the aftermarket impeller was crap can’t believe they sell these Chinese junk for 40 dollars on eBay I didn’t post anything because I am embarrassed of how how I ducked up another impeller hahaha
We love embassment here lol. Even us pros screw up
Maybe it's time to give up & buy a new pump? Joe H
I was looking at your shaft looks pretty badly pitted where impeller goes on might be a good idea to replace the shaft
Yeah but where ?? I will keep trying I like the idea of buying machines and fixing them and saving thousands of dollars but like I’m noticing it’s not easy because a lot of the rebuild kits are Chinese crap for this pump I’m particular the kit didn’t include and impeller at all Where can I buy a rebuilt water pump for my dozer?
Yeah I used the old shaft just for that one photo for some reason but I got a new shaft oem
Wait until you see where these older design cat parts are made. Like I said, when I rebuilt an identical water pump using Cat parts the ceramic part attacked to the impeller just simply fell off, and that was genuine.
So update: I got a new oem impeller and seal both old stock The after market seal I got first it’s too thick and doesn’t sit properly against at the housing hole where the shafts supposed to go through so now the clearance problem is solved Last challenge: there were three self tapping I think is the name self tapping flat head screws the ones where the head is tapered to sit flush against the back cover not sure how to explain it better so these screws I sort of almost destroyed when I removed them don’t think I should be reusing them So I wonder if I can just use regular bolts instead of screws not sure if there will be a clearance problem where the protruding bolt heads will interfere with the installation of the water pump I found old stock oem screws on eBay but they are like 20 dollars each which is ridiculous So the big day where I reinstall the water pump and crank the dozer and see it running again is almost here! After 5 months hahaha
You'll need to use tapered head screws, any decent bolt shop should have them. May not have the sloted ones but have Allen head tops which will be fine
I did find tapered screws and finished bolting Down everything tomorrow I’ll start mounting it to the engine block hehehe it was such a cool project My advice to others is don’t buy aftermarket parts especially the rebuild kits just get everything old stock if possible off eBay and just be careful and methodical
So I have a question should I have fastened the tapered screws more the heads are like 1 mm protruding from the back cover they don’t sit flush The back cover I had it made in a shop but maybe the tapered screw holes should be a bit wider or what do you think?
Thats not going to work
Ok so I will remove the pump and make sure the stupid screws sit flush with the back cover I think I’m gonna a have to make the holes a bit wider then
Thats called a countersink. Make sure the screw heads are flat when tightened
looks like the bolt thread is bottoming out before the countersink is bottomed out
well the screws are a bit larger than the ones im replacing so its got plenty of threads, but the hole its supposed to be tapered to fit the tapered head ill figure it out on monday and report back tthanks guys
So i took the backplate to the shop and got 4 countersunk holes instead of 3 the guy who screwed this job says I can just use a spacer and a regular bolt I’m thinking of using a countersunk screw or a regular screw with some jd weld and a spacer But I can’t figure out which bolt is the right one for this hole I’m thinking it’s this one: so assuming it’s that 1.75 bolt can I just use a countersunk screw here too? Or the jb weld and spacer solution is a better idea? I can’t fasten these flathead screws too much because the head might start stripping so maybe I’ll just use good old jb weld
The bolt you circled goes through the water pump from the outside, your screw isn't going to do anything when you screw it into the pump. I think you're in past your skill set on this, no offense. Joe H th
Hehe sorry it might be the language barrier The screw would have to be 1.75 inch long not 1 inch and it’s not the one you marked on the photo. For you to assume I was thinking of using a 1 inch screw in place of a longer bolt you must think I’m an idiot This is the last stage of the rebuild weather you like it or not no offense sometimes I feel this heavy equipment boards especially acmoc the guys who post most want everybody to believe fixing a bulldozer yourself is impossible and that you need to pay experts and dealerships for every fix or maintenance. No offense Joe I am always respectful of senior members but your messages haven’t been especially helpful on this thread and it seems to me you are just waiting for my rebuild to fail, or me to throw the towel I won’t fail I always fix my machines and if another farmer is reading it’s not a bad idea to buy an old dozer too and rebuild everything yourself dozers are game changers for all us ranchers and it’s so sad to see them now as museum pieces like some obscure piece of equipment like they do at acmoc or 100k dollars machines you need to go into debt to buy one that’s not the case you just gotta be patient and have a modicum of intelligence
You are misunderstanding me, the bolt goes through the pump, through the plate and into the engine. Joe H
It's not that at all. It's a matter of fixing something........or fixing something right. A spacer plate and standard bolts isn't right.
Why are you using flatheads and not SHCS’s? They should be available at most hardware stores.