G'day All My question is what is a journeyman tradesman and what do you have to do to attain this title? I suppose I am also wondering how young people are trained in other countries (America, Canada and UK). Here in Australia, if you want to become a mechanic (or any trade really) you generally leave school when you are 16-18 years old and start a apprenticeship. These are a four year agreement between you and your employer that they will train you to be a mechanic. This training is on the job as well as at government run training schools(Tafe etc) which may be attended 1 day a week or up to 5 days every 5 weeks. At the end of the 4 years, providing you have passed all the tafe work, you will be given a trade certificate and then can call yourself a qualified mechanic. Whether or not you have the skills to actually fix anything is another question. When applying for a job it is generally required that you provide a copy of your trade certificate to show that you at least have a piece of paper that says you can do the job. I am probably wrong, but I got the impression from reading some post here that if you like fixing/are good at fixing things you can approach a shop and ask for a job without any formal training. Is this correct or am I missing something completely. I am not trying to bag anyone out just a little bit curious. Cheers Gav
Yep, here in the states, you can call yourself a mechanic, get a job as a mechanic, start your own shop, etc. with zero experience or training. Of course there are tech schools, programs, certifications. And there are legal requirements/licenses for starting a business in some states, but those are usually more like bare minimum business competency tests, and apply more to "consumer" business like auto repair. Then of course there's the whole other cans of worms of OSHA, EPA, DNR etc. but as far as starting up a small equipment repair shop, or walking in and getting a job with no degree, it's entirely possible. In the US, a journeyman is the stage between apprentice and master.
Most kids start out as parts runners/helpers and are given more responsibility when they earn it.
In Canada, one trade is Heavy Equipment Technician (421A). It is an unregulated trade administered by each province, but then linked with a "Red Seal" that makes the certificate portable between provinces. There is an apprenticeship associated with the 421A. Some techs do a traditional apprenticeship with an employer, with 2 or 3 blocks of in-school training at a technical college. More commonly these days, a person will take a post-secondary course and do some trade specific training pre-employment at their own expense before starting an apprenticeship. Because the 421A is not a mandatory trade cert., it's a document that really just shows the training and work hours on the job (approx 5000-10000 in total school and work), but it is not legally required to work on off-highway equipment. An employer may tie their journeyperson pay rate to the 421A, but that`s up to the employer. If you want to work on highway-going trucks or buses, there is another cert that IS regulated for that (310T) Is there no competency testing along the way? Here you have to pass the in-school portions or possibly pass an exemption test, and then a C of Q (Certification of Qualification) test. There is also a competency check book that the apprentice and employer sign off as skills are demonstrated (e.g. welding: basic tacking in all positions) Once the book is full, the student can write the test (In Ontario it works that way - not sure if all other provinces the same) The C of Q test is generally pretty bad, and not an accurate way to asses a mechanic's skills. A multiple choice test won't show if someone is going to put all the skid pan bolts back in and tighten them of course. That is partly why the pre-employment courses are popular with employers looking to hire apprentices. The schools are the buck-stoppers to some degree. They can help a student make a graceful exit if they are in the "wrong place".
Ok I understand a bit more now. I was thinking that a journeyman was the top I didn't realise that a master was higher. WhyWhyZed Canada sounds pretty similar to Australia. Yes there is tests and competency books while you are training but these aren't very strict and most of the time the teachers are geared to getting people to pass no matter what, they leave it to the employers to try and weed out the ones that are no good but it is hard to sack an apprentice with our workplace relations laws. We are also the same in regards to highway and non highway equipment. We I went to tafe it was a mixed class of both truck and heavy plant mechanics. I was enrolled as a plant mechanic so even though I had the same lessons as the truck blokes my piece of paper says something different so I can't easily get a motor vehicle repair licence to legally work on road going equipment. So if some one was say a John Deere master certified technician does that mean they have passed training courses run by John Deere?
All of the trades unions in the U.S. also train through apprentice schools. The carpenters, plumbers, electricians, pipe fitters, HVAC, insulators, iron workers, etc all have either a 4 or 5 year apprentice school in which they have to test out each six months to get there structured raises and they have to have their required school hours. They start out at 45 to 50 percent wages and when they turn out as journeymen they are at 100 percent wage. Plumbers and electricians can go on for their masters license if they want but only one license is required in a company so most don't spend the money for the license. The operatoring engineers here are based on equipment training and hours. Not sure how they qualify their mechanics. We have always been fortunate enough to hire good mechanics that are tired of the BS on their old job, and come to us as they enjoy being treated like a human. What I see is that the youngsters coming out of the apprentice schools today are top notch hands. Part of that may be that with the last few years of economic downturn only the smartest survived but the trade schools have become top notch also. Most are running jobs as soon as they turn out.
In Canada it means you have been through the 4 year apprenticeship program which is 10 months working/2 months in school for each year of the program. So you have held a job in your trade for at least 4 years, you have enough basic knowledge in all areas of the field that you should be able to fit in anywhere you choose. You have demonstrated the knowledge and skills required to safely work in the trade without hurting yourself or others around you. It's impossible for a mechanic to know it all. The trade is way to vast & varied for that. Experience is everything. The journeyman licence is only a starting point for us. What the schooling does is give you education in how the various systems work, because if you don't understand how something works in the first place - you don't have a hope in hell of trouble shooting it or fixing it.
That is very true. When I was just finishing up and started to think I knew what I was doing an old fella told me that he didn't count your years of apprenticeship as experience. Meaning you start back at square one when you become qualified.