I'm looking into buying a tracked skid steer and i was just looking for some thoughts and ideas of ones to look at. right now im looking at bobcat, cat and ASV. any thoughts?
Eric, welcome to HEF. I'm sure some other members have more experience that I do. They'll be asking you, what's your budget, what's your purpose or need? The tracked skids (compact track loaders or CTL's) are useful and productive. Depending on what you are doing, the push better, are more stable, and are useful in softer ground conditions. But I get them stuck, too. Compared to tires, they are definitely more expensive to own, i.e. track replacement costs, rollers and bearing, and labor. Will you be working in the cold? You'll want a cab (extra cost). I own a Bobcat 773 and am happy with it, so I'm familiar and favorable towards the Bobcat line. I'm not crazy about the T200, the T190 is nice for light work but for what I'm used to, I stall it--too much traction and not enough power. For tough jobs, I like the T250 or T300. If money is no object, look at the new M-series. There are a lot of Cats around here. Same deal though. If you're buying used, you can get into some track/roller/bearing replacement costs. To get an idea what used Bobcat stuff sells for (asking prices, anyway), look at this site as an example. I've known Rod Lano for a while, and they sell and trade a lot of Bobcat units from their 3 locations. http://www.lanoequip.com/ Before you buy, try to rent a variety of machines and run them for a minimum of a day each. That'll help you decide what you like.
make sure to try the takeuchi line, also marketed as gehl & mustang. For dirt work they are some of the strongest.
tak and gehl are reliable but dont serve purpose of a track machine to me due to the fact that that they arent very stable climbing steep ground with empty bucket
If your willing to spend the money go with a cat, we just gotta 299c, best ctl by far. Great power and unmatched visibility. We demoed a deere 333d and a t870, cat smoked um both
how is the 299 on steep ground
I think older Cat and ASV have plastic undecarriage parts that don't hold up well working in gravels. I've heard Cat has excellent auxillary flow. We have Takeuchi TL 130 powerfull little machine not a problem in over two years.
a friend of mine claims around 600 hrs on his tak 130 tracks and says sprockets , idlers about 1200 hrs thats much better cat/asv if you dont watch what u r doing
most of what i do is in mud or spreading topsoil. i plan on using it in the winter to push snow and i was thinking about putting a stump grinder on it possibly if it makes sense. ive herd alot of bad about the ASV/ Cat undercarriage with the rubber idlers. but in mud and snow the rubber idlers should last decent shouldnt they?
I would say for a pure CTL, the Takkie(or sister versions) is the answer. I run a Case with the Loegering VTS and think that is the best, if I was still doing commercial snow I would take the VTS off and run tires. To me it doesn't make sense to put extra hours on a track machine as well as not having the same top speed as a regular two speed skid. Also, try selling a CTL, it is brutal...
jcb
snow removal , a CTL is not a good idea. Operation cost of a track machine is way to high running on pavement and big money rubber tracks ! A machine with tires is faster and cheaper to run in that application . pushing dirt or digging holes a CTL will run circles around even the biggest of tire machines , really comes down to what needs to be done. I run may machine in soft silt and topsoil that always muddy so a CTL is best for that but I also do limited snow removal so I really need to watch the time I run it on pavement that there is some snow to buffer the tracks. mostly just push back piles that the plows bring to me and stock pile.
You gonna be using this machine on a commercial basis or is it private use only? It's not so much the idlers that are a problem, it's the bearings they run on. Track lugs are another issue but can be fixed with Larry lugs. The problem is poor operators that don't look after the undercarriage. If you are mechanically competent you can most of the work on the undercarriage yourself and save a dollar or 100.
XCmark, you said What about a big machine like a 963 using Loegering steel tracks over tires. Do you think that combination can get through the mud like a CTL?
My CTL has a 92 hp turbo 4L motor that about the highest HP rating of anything made today, True there are a few more HP in some models but any thing over 90 is at the top of the pile give or take. Loegering steel track are a huge improvement over tires but I dont think you have the surface area that a 18" wide rubber track has . Cat and ASV has even wider tracks on there machines all this gives you is flotation and soft ground you want to tread light , or you sink! If I recall the 963 is around 14,000 lbs , that is big no mater how you slice it but I still think todays modern machines can do more work with less weight on rubber tracks . just my opinion and opinions are like A holes everyone has one and no one wants to hear it ! LOL
+1 for Tak
Havent had it on ne thing to crazy steep, but it seems to have very low center of gravity and good traction, yesterday we pulled our 650j outta the mud with it no problem. We also borrowed a pisher for the day froma buddy, a 10' pro-tech, it pushed 6" of wet sloppy snow in second with no problem at all
Our company has a Cat 277B. It's pretty good on fuel, and has enough power for everything we've ever done. I've run it with grapples on three major land clearing jobs with no issues, picking up 13 or 14 inch, 60 or 70 foot long logs. Also, we've run it in mheavy mud on each of those jobs and never had a problem. Now we just need more work for it.
Ive run a bunch of different, presonally i think the mustangs/gehl/tak are strong machines fast and resonably priced. When it comes to puching snow though, unless you can find a different track design for them...no good on icey areas (its what we use, and isnt to efficent). Ive heard that the cats do great in snow, they have the track design where the treads runs long ways across the entire pad, spaced every couple inches and that aparently works great on the icey areas. But just the other day i ran a tracked 333 Deere, and man i loved it, i though it was faster and more responsive than the cat (was using it to spread and grade stone). I did happen to notice that the rubber track deisgn (not undercarrage design) was similar to the mustangs ... dont know how it would be in the snow/ice. Just my .02
My understanding is that the yellow puss uses the ASV type undercarriage and uses torsion bars to provide suspension, this helps keep the track on the ground, where fixed tracks tend to lift the front a little.
do get a straight answer, you need to be super specific on what you plan on using the machine for. I can give a some good input on cat and tak. i have (2) 287B (2) 287C (3) 289C (2) TL150 (1) TL130 If you're worried about snow removal, they'll all do the job. The old style 287 tracks are the best in the snow. The 289 and Tak at like walking on a wood floor with socks. you can do it but you need to take precautions. the 287s will do the least amount of damage to lawns. the Tl150 ( or Tl250 ) will out push the cats be far. I dont know how anyone can say otherwise. And I say that owning both brands. the cats offer a much smoother ride than the tak. We have more cat machines because we do alot of work where we need to be concerned with damaging lawns, athletic fields, sidewalks etc. If you have specific questions about either brand I can answer them for you. I can speak for bobcat,jd, or any of the other brands bc I've never put any real time in their seats
Asv all the way the low ground pressure is amazing look at some of the videos on you tube will amaze u
get deere ctl the only machine to have thought takeuchi was good till a few weeks ago we replaced three engines i think they should put a replace engine light in the dash plus we did a lot more takkie engines before this not impressed
I have had excellent with the Bobcat line, will buy another when time to trade. Just like any piece / brand of equipment, you can get a good one or a bad one.
Best skid loader on market by my standards is kubota. Own cat kubota gehl/tackeutchi and bobcat kubota blows cat out of the water 10 times better. Cat makes one of the worst ctl's to me small cab rough ride. I will only buy kubota or bobcat from now on most likely kubota
You lost me when you said Cat had a rougher ride than the Kubota.
The cat 289c2 we had had a shorter undercarriage than the kubota svl 90 I believe it looked like it I never checked the specs on it. The 90 is a bigger machine but the cat just beat me to death compared to the kubota. The kubota has a much larger cab and is just a far more Comfortable machine to run no skid loader rides great but there's a big difference between these to. The slide up door on the kubota also makes it much easier to use you don't have to worry about were the boom is to get in and out of the machine and in the summer if you want to you can run with the door open and don't have to worry about breaking the glass if you get into something that can do that you just roll the door up and latch it
Track lengths are within .6" and the Cat has a suspension. I don't own either machine, but I've operated both the Kubota machines and the newer Cat D series. The Kubotas are a typical Kubota machine, ruggedly built with many things in the design as an afterthought- only has A/C vents on one side of cab, can't even see hyd sight gauge when putting in hyd fluid, must raise lap bar to adjust A/C or heat, door rattles like crazy when operating with it in the up position, cab is loud as hell, no clean outs in the loader towers and openings right into the engine bay, cheesy washer bottle in the cab, etc. Of course everyone has their preference and that's what makes this industry interesting. Glad you like your machine and I hope it gives you years of great performance.
I don't see how Cat's cabs are too small for people, it bugs me more that the takeuchi cab is so wide because it is harder to see out of, the Cat cabs are nice and narrow and easy to see right down next to the track imo Plus a smaller cab warms up quicker in the winter and is easier to keep cool in the summer.
I'm a taller bigger guy so getting in and out all day is why I don't like it. Cat is also so much more money you can get a kubota that has its faults for 60 and a comparable cat that has its faults to is gonna be above 90 probably closer to 100 for a 299 d. kubota insurance is added into your payment for next to nothing and covers everything an operator backed our hard into a tree and dented the door and they replaced it for nothing and no rate increase that's part of the reason I say go for the kubota just so much more affordable and profitable for the company
A $30-40K difference for the same class size machine?
We paid 65 for kubota svl 90 in 2012 new with cab everything you can get and I just looked on machinery trader for a 2015 new cat 299d that has 5 more hp than the kubota weighs about the same they were asking 95 probly going to add taxes on top of that to so that would put you over a hundred. A 2013 cat 299d with 1200 hrs asking 67. 2015 kubota with 30 hours same features as cat back up camera and everything 60 with 0 percent financing for 48 months
I am guessing that if you went to Cat and said you were interested in the Kubota for $60k they would drop the price on the 299D $10k or more. That being said I would be willing to spend more for a Cat just for the parts and service.
The service and parts for where we are is far better with kubota because cat shut down there dealer and now it's more than 100 miles to the closet one in our sales district we get most of our cat parts now for our other stuff from a komatsu dealer we run mostly cat stuff I'm just not impressed with there ctl's
Machinery trader is known for high retail pricing, great resource for auction values and such but some of the pricing for used equipment is higher than I can buy it new locally. Case in point my local dealer has a package deal 259D with a 14' trailer, binders/chains/straps, PM kit, 66" bucket, forks and a Pelican cooler for $60K plus tax. Used ones on MT, the average for sale price without high and low is $53K just for the machine. Just food for thought. Did you quote a Cat in 2012 when you bought the Kubota?
Having spent a little bit of time in both machines I can understand why the Cat would be priced higher, but $30k seems high and CM1995 is correct regarding Machinery Trader. Very similar to published list prices for cars vs the actual transaction price. The Cat cab is considerably nicer- air ride heated seats, modern ergonomic switches, factory fit LCD and rear camera vs some aftermarket job that each different dealer must source, a Bluetooth radio vs an aftermarket version, load sensing pumps vs gear pumps and a boost flow high flow system, suspension, self priming fuel filters, much quieter can, much better sealed cab, etc. All these factors add up to a higher price. This is taking nothing away from a Kubota CTL. They make a rugged and inexpensive machine.
The only thing kubota doesn't have is LCD screen that will quite in 5 years and need replaced in my opinion so thats just a none needed look at me luxury and Bluetooth radio and camera which is one thing kubota does need to add we put one in ours. Kub has electronic load sensing hydraulics and travel management system near identical undercarriage only cat multiterrain loaders have suspension and that's just an asv machine. Both have triple flanged idlers and rollers. Same buttons and switches in cab just each the company's own version. Both have air suspension seat. Not trying to argue just saying there fairly close machines cat just has the fancy factor kubota has the reliability. I go against cat small machines because of the problems we have had with our 236 and 304 cr both couplings between engine and hydralic pumps broke within 2 weeks of each other 304 came from factory with cracked block replaced engine on warranty at 900 hrs and ac problems. And so far kubota svl 90 and u55 haven't had a single problem at 2000 and 1500 hrs each
Cat does have that torsion axle suspension I forgot about that I can't tell any ride difference with it though
Were looking for a skid steer to use in building and maintaining MX Track We need to move Dry and wet dirt and groom surfaces This is an investment that will basically be 100% cost with very little gain other than advertising for our Dirt Bike company so price is a huge factor We have used a wheel bob cat and a new terex track machine and favor the track machine but the cost is very high on these
Interesting you mentioned the engine to pump coupler - I recently heard a CAT dealer supposedly sells the heck out of the new coupler that has no plastic in it like the original ones. Pain to change in the A series - no room to work, and no clean outs in the belly back there.
I use a Bobcat T770 to groom our local MX track. We finally got a small 450 Dozer this spring which will help out greatly for the ripping process (even if it is slower than the T770). I used a number of attachments: 6-Way dozer blade, rippers, soil conditioner and bucket. I wouldn't want to go any smaller than the T770 and would definitely not use a wheeled machine. I use the dozer blade to pull the dirt back from corners and rework the jump faces. The lips of the jumps are always finished by back blading with the smooth bladed bucket. Usually takes me two full days to groom the track by myself, but a lot of that has to do with the fact the track only gets groomed once a month so it is pretty hard by the time we get to it. Happy equipment hunting.
Thank you !! Excellent input Please excuse my Ignorance when it comes to these Now that its narrowed down to a track skid steer Are there any others the same size of bigger than BoBcat T770 that folks would recommend for our use ? Looking to get one Local to the Philly area My Goal is to get a machine we can haul with a Trailer and 250 or 230 P/U Truck and not need a CDL or other equipment to move it around like a dump truck Im told an HD Dump trailer will accept the machine and we can pull everything with an F250
CNH Claims to have the "widest cab in the industry". The C/C2 & D series Cat cabs are less than an inch narrower. Don't know what benefit any wider cab from any brand would have as it is. Haven't ever measured a Kubota cab, but figured it wasn't much different if CNH had the widest. As with anything, what were the differences in the machines specs? There's lots of options that can make one worse than the other. Seat options are a big one, air ride versus spring (spring can be nicer or just as nice but is a PITA to adjust), cloth versus vinyl, etc. Ride control makes a night and day difference as well. IIRC Kubota doesn't offer ride control? I know people who have it but they added it later and its always on. The kubota armrests and sticks dont move with seat which annoyed me but its minor for some. Slide up/roll up doors are a personal preference. From what i've heard, Kubota did a decent job with theirs compared to others but they are still a personal preference. As much as I love the option of being able to work with it open on certain jobs (when you need to communicate with people or see/hear intricate things), I hate getting in and out of them and much prefer a pull n go handle on a normal swinging door as well as the tight seal they always have. If breaking glass is an issue order it with Lexan. I've never used a c/c2 or D with a glass door, ours have all been lexan and I don't think the dealer orders any with glass anyways. I'm not big but I am tall, I like the low threshold of the Cat but feel getting up to that point leaves something to be desired, being tall makes it easier though. With a bucket on its no big deal, with no attachment, leaving the plate forward gives you a step. The D series has a nice step on the plate but the door doesn't open far enough to use it. With some attachments you are left having to step on top of tire which is a pretty big jump for a lot of people. Sounds like they need a heavier door or better bumper protection if a tree can dent it. Hope the one on the wheeled machines is tougher (especially since the fuel tank is in/on it) or it wont last long in barns. Those prices are seriously high for a 299D even an XHP with every option. But location does play a big role. Kubota's machines are/were built to be economical, they always have been, thats how a lot of japanese stuff is. Simple, reliable, economical, efficient. You mean the ones that say for rent only? Machinery trader/Tractor house list prices on any equipment, especially new, are the top end of prices which are never anywhere near the selling prices. Look at the auction prices to find the bottom dollar value, then average between for a rough idea. If comparing new equipment, be serious with the dealer. I know what a 299 would go for here and while I have nothing against the Kubota, for that price I wouldn't see a reason to buy it instead, if nothing else simply for the resale. They're both good, a prices vary a lot based on dealer. We have an awesome Kubota dealer and have Kubota stuff as well. If financing is your thing, Cat has 0 for 60 with 0 down. The screen isn't really a luxury and its optional. Its nice to be able to control your own settings without having to have the dealer plug in and change them for you (ride control engagement speed, control agressiveness, diagnostics,etc) None of those would matter on the Kubota anyways though. Kubota does not have the variable displacement pump that the XPS/XHP Cat's have, they use gear pumps. Still load sensing though, but less efficient and lower pressure also. The kubota's are great machines, I have nothing against them thats for sure. At least the Cat and Kubota people agree on a good engine.
When we bought our 770 Bobcat last fall, the final offer from Cat for a 299D XHP was $78,000. This was after we said we were going to buy the Bobcat. The salesman even asked us to take a picture of the invoice and send it to him so he could show the higher-ups.
I agree on kubota,we just bought a new svl 75,love it
You buy the SERVICE not the machine Funny how people are saying tracks this, ride that, seat this , visibility that, and not one mention about SERVICE. Go to all the dealers talk to the service dept. Next call the service dept. and act as if you need service and see how soon they can get to you or have parts. I did that with my local dealers and ONLY ONE came out with flying colors, and that was CAT. The Kubota peopel wer flat out jerks. 10 years of running CAT and when I call for parts they are there the next day.I call for service, they send out a truck within a few days - full service, oil, hydro, filters etc. My advice is you buy the service / dealer first then the machine. All machines are close enough these days it doesn't matter that much. Years ago when these things were new, there were some huge differences - not so much today, plus most have worked out their bugs, and have good, strong machines.
Who has a 6way dozer blade for skid steer they would sell?
Another thing to think about, and I know this thread is old, but for someone still searching for answers. I bought a 2006 CAT, used the heck out of it for 10 years, sold it in 2016 for near what I paid for it. Where else can you have a great piece of equipment to use for free for 10 years. Something to think about is the resale. Like I said earlier CAT service is the best thing they have going. I owned Kubota tractor and often times waited 30 days for parts to come over by boat, or I paid $1000.00 air freight for quick service.
Know this is a old post but.... If anyone could help.. Regarding used equipment prices. Machiery Trader has a "View High/Low Average" feature that you can view after you do your search for a particular machine. Which also shows Auction High/low auction prices. Is this where your getting your auction prices your talking about (or even used prices) or are you getting your auction/used prices from somewhere else? I'm having a hard time trying to figure out the best way to figure out if a machine is worth what they are asking or how much i could low ball them without offending them. other than machinery trader what other sites are good for determining a machines worth? Thanks
First of all there is no way to offend someone selling something. They can do one of three things, say NO, counter your offer, or throw you out of their store. #3 will never happened. I make it a sport of giving crazy offers. As a teen ager when other kids were making prank calls, I was calling all the people selling cars and offering them crazy low prices. Some people agreed to sell me their car at 50% of what they were asking. Some would say no, some would counter, some would hang up, and still other would actually agree to my crazy low ball offer. Then as I got older I did the same thing at swap meets and flea markets, there I had to do it face to face. Some times people would get mad ( who cares ) some would counter and others would accept. Here is an auction site that gives you an idea. I would offer 30% less than asking and not go above 15% of asking http://www.ironplanet.com/?src=insi...rs9o6rGWqVwL1mGpOWGv23QhYum3jg&_hsmi=55546592
With anything used you never know when something will go wrong. You may pay more at a dealer but if they offer some kind of warranty for 3, 6 or 12 month's might be worth considering. I bought a used Honda CR125 dirt bike that was in mint shape and less than 3 hours on it. Had to replace the stator and flywheel because the clutch return spring inside the flywheel cover broke. Just an oddball thing to happen. I got the new flywheel and stator and left the spring off because it isn't needed. The clutch has it's own springs so doesn't need the extra spring. Just saying, weird things can happen at any time.
Yep that's always the gamble. But if you do you due diligence and even if that means paying an expert you get to have and enjoy things for free. My last set of "toys" I bought I made out like a bandit. Bought a used CAT skid steer drove it 10 years and got nearly what I paid for it when I bought it. Bought a Kubota, drove it five years sold it for more than I paid. Bought a 2006 Ford F250 4x4 utility box paid 16K for it in 2008 just sold it last month for $19.5K, so I was paid to drive it for nearly 10 years. Got a used Class A RV, only 18K miles on it, paid 18K for it, drove it and vacationed for two years sold it for 25K. My point is there is a lot of upside to buying things at a great price, but definitely do your homework so you don't get stung. But them again if you buy and sell like I do, a lemon now and again is part of doing business, knock wood I keep up the winning streak.
MT is a good place to start. As others have stated the retail values are often very high, sometimes higher than what one can buy the machine new for. I take the average of the auction and retail prices without the high/low. (Throwing out the high and low prices gives a better average as a machine could have been sold at auction as salvage.) If the machine is in good shape with average hours for it's age then that will give you a place to start a valuation. It doesn't mean the machine is or isn't worth that value but it's somewhere to start. There are so many variables in valuing used equipment. Demand for the specific type of equipment in your local and regional market plays a large role as well.
Yes I know buying used you take a gamble. However seems sometimes buying new is the same gamble at times. Once I had a brand new truck that was always at the dealer for one thing or another. Girlfriend bought a used vehicle, and has had zero issues with it. Difference is there was a warranty for a period on the truck. My hope was to buy a slightly used, as in just a few years old. Something that would still be eligible for a extended warranty which I could get from a dealer. But then I question myself as to why someone would be selling a 2015/16 skid with low hours. Whats the issue(s) with it causing that person to sell it? Which brings me to kendall69 statement of doing your "due diligence". Whats the checklist of things you would be checking out/ looking into / asking about, when you went and looked at the machine.
May have been a personal use machine. I'm just a homeowner on about 15 acres. I've got a skidsteer, tractor, trailer etc to deal with the land and snow - all are over ten years old and I think the most hours I have on one is about 400. Bought and excavator with about 4,800 hours on it nine years ago - I've only put 85 hours on it. Could also be an estate sale......or divorce sale.....
Most of those late model lower hour machines are dealer rentals. Each dealer has different amoratization schedules. Some sell them at a certain hour range or age just depends on how the internal accounting operates. Cat dealers sell a lot of there rental machines on Iron Planet. Used dealers buy them, mark them up and sell them.
We have been running Kubotas for 12yrs... our SVL 90 Has 2200hrs with original undercarriage!! They are by far the best on U/Cs!! And this should be a huge factor in your purchase! As replacement can run up 7-10k. Ours had a few rollars screaming this summer and I though it was due for a U/C? Dealer advised me to pull them and top them up with gear oil! Simply unscrewed the lube port and added, they are smooth a quit again!! 2 rollars and remounted the track in a hr!! Ours is a 2010 so first model yr with no load sensing or DPF etc. Looking at a 95 for the spring, Im not a fan of the DEF but there's no way around it, dealer told me with minimal idle time it won't burn to much?? Our KX040 has DPF burn and only burns when it idles doing smaller work like placing armour stone etc when the rpm's are down... goodluck
Ok so if buying from an individual and if its only a year or two old. Whats the best way of making sure / finding out, its owned free and clear and there's no lien on the machine? Thanks
Check your state's UCC filings to see if there are any liens filed on the machine.
Fast Forward 5 years.. I would like to hear top 5 in the 74HP models
Top 5? Probably likely the same as it was 5 years ago. With the exception Kubota has slipped because of their awful emissions problems.
Seems like a battle with Cat and Kubota.. and I see Takeuchi thrown in..
Kubota has some bad emissions stuff going on. They all have their problems, I'll stay with Bobcat. I just don't care for the feel of the Cat controls at all. I like Case/NH even less, Deere is the worst IMO for control. I've never ran a Tak. Closest dealer is 300 miles away, so they are pretty much out.
My neighborhood is all Bobcat Kubota Cat and Deere
It depends on everyone's specific location and the dealers in their area. Just because a specific brand may be better, the dealer could be too far away or that dealer could be terrible to deal with. There's different criteria for determining what's the best or even the top 5. Also one brand could have 1 machine that's great and another machine that's nothing but problems.
I thought the Kubota emissions problems were with the larger machines? The under 75hp Kubota stuff seems pretty reliable, at least in my experience. I do know of a couple guys with SVL95's that have been battling problems with the DEF system.
Don’t buy rubber wheeled tracks ASV is trash, buy CAT with steel wheel and track
Hey everyone! I recently started using a tracked skid steer for my landscaping projects, and it's been a game changer. After trying out a few models, I've found the Bobcat T870 to be the best. Its power, versatility, and smooth operation make tough jobs much easier. I also heard great things about the CAT 299D3, which offers excellent stability and comfort. For those who have experience with these machines, what are your thoughts? Any other models I should consider? Looking forward to your recommendations!
Pardon us for being cautious, but it took you 5 years to make a post?
I recently used a tracked skid steer. So, I replied it what is wrong with that?