If you are moving earth, or gravel, or rocks, what is the maximum force in pounds or newtons that you can put on a backhoe front bucket, arms, and set of mounting pins without worrying about damage? How can I find this out?
How to measure, I don't know. Manufacturers publish breakout force specs. I've never had a backhoe I couldn't rip open a bucket. It comes down to what you are digging. I have the sense I could dig all day in clay, sand, or loam without risk. Impacted rocks, ledge, or stumps in impacted rocks might be a concern. Frozen ground, all bets are off. Using your head is required. Force spread evenly across the bucket, no stalls, you will wear it, but not tear it.
Whatever the hydraulics of the machine can do.
It's never a question of distributed forces, it is always a point load like prying on a buried piece of concrete that will hurt a front bucket. Your front tires will talk to you if you listen. When you get too much they squat hard. I've moved lots of heavy structures with a set of chains and the tires and steering will cry uncle first.
No Idea...BUT, I have seen the sheer force exceeded. A driver running down the road at 40+ MPH with the bucket lowered just above suddenly hits a raised manhole cover. Obviously, the machine stopped very quickly. But, in this case, it also sheered the arm pin off, at which point the bucket lift frame came thru the window. Not a good day!! This was a Ford 555 or 555A, don't quite remember at this point, but same style of attachment. BTW, the operator was thrown out thru the windshield and was hurt, but not killer...seatbelts do save lives, but not when the operator is sitting on them...
Yikes Swetz!
I have seen a lot of dumb things where our guys destroy equipment. Every couple of years a guy will clean a bucket truck off the back of a line truck by leaving it up and driving down the road, and hitting a bridge, and we have warning lights on the dash to inform them the platform is elevated.
Even that isn't the dumbest thing a person could do. I built my house in 1980, the concrete boss was middle aged. When I added on in 2006 he was a bit older. He had finished the floor, & called to ask if I'd be available to help load the power trowel. I couldn't be there at the time he would come, so I elected to pick it out of the cellar, and set it on a nearby gravel pile. He could then back up to it, it'd be a downhill thing to load it. The foundation wasn't yet backfilled. I lifted it out, swung around to my right, didn't have quite enough swing to reach the pile I wanted to set it on. In past I had moved 2000 LB objects to the extreme swing, a 250 LB power trowel should be nothing. I lifted the stabilizers an inch off the ground, all was steady. I lifted the front bucket an inch off the ground, it was still steady. When I tried to move, it flipped! Tossed me through the missing door, where I scrambled to get out of the way, expecting it to go all the way over. Backhoe lay on one stabilizer, the side of the front bucket, and the hoe. Not quite on its side, but high in the air. Yes, my pride was destroyed. The carburetor on the power trowel was broken loose in the sudden movement. I screwed up. I had to make things right. The cost of Honda parts to repair The 20 year old engine were near the cost of a new Briggs IC. I then discovered the Honda engine had its shaft cut to fit the clutch for the Atlas trowel. Two halves of the clutch were 3/4" misaligned. Repairing the engine wouldn't have been a fix. New engine, new clutch, then I learned the new engine had no fuel pump. Refitting a fuel pump wasn't simple. I lost track of hours, dollars totaled near $1000. I don't know if he used it again, he was at the end of his working days.
Yes, emmett, just like that. As you see, it destroys the body (bucket truck in my cases) and the chassis that normally carries it. We always joke...if you want to test a product, give it to our workers, and they will let you know...LOL
Unless the bucket is already damaged, it should handle whatever the machine can give it. If you are ramming it, then all bets are off. I have seen the floor pealed on a bucket, but the rust on the break was a good indication of an earlier crack. Had a few guys retire from the snow removal this year. Their 3 replacements, already operators, but not much plowing experience. They were told, it's not a race. Once you figure out your time management, and where everything is things go faster for you. 2 guys did great. One guy...I have had the same route for years, and I always take my time the first couple storms just in case that manhole might be a bit higher, or there is something new that wasn't there last year. One guy... one guy..... decided he had to go faster on a brand new route. A Walmart parking lot, with speed bumps across the front of the store. He had been told about them...one guy..... 950 Cat.... 16 foot steel snow flange.....no spring loaded cutting edge....vs a concrete speed bump. Lucky for him there was no damage to the loader, and it only tore off the quick attach mounts. He had to finish the entire parking lot with the bucket. Good thing it wasn't a big storm.
No. Prying on rock, frost, stump, near any immovable object will damage a new bucket. You can't exert maximum force without engaging one tooth at a time, then something is going to break.
Perhaps, but I have never broken anything that way, not saying it wouldn't happen. I have driven one out rigger down farther many times in order to use one tooth to try and dig frost. I have seen guys rip the bottom of a ditching bucket trying to use it in hard digging. Seen pictures of D10s breaking ripper shanks in the frost, and I guess I have bent the arms on that useless mid mount scarifer on my grader in a couple inches of frost. Although to be honest, I never found our New Holland back hoes had enough power to hurt themselves at the best of times.
Before going any further, I might ask what brings up the question? Are we talking about cause and effect of an accident or failure? Maybe you are trying to prove a defect in materials or workmanship. Is this for a comparison between two or more manufacturers? The force that can be put on an attachment is based on the total weight and length of the machine and modified by center of gravity and the distribution of that weight. The question isn't specific enough to provide any kind of meaningful answer in a computational sense. If you are talking about how much force can the machine exert on the bucket is one question. How much force can the bucket, attaching linkages and joints withstand is another question. A final question might be how much force can an operator force into those structures though poor operation of the machine? Define the problem better and then ask the specific question if you want meaningful answers.
I am thinking out a new kind of front loader bucket, and I want to add a trip edge, like truck snow plows have. I'd like to know how much force can the front loader arms, pins, and mounts comfortably and safely tolerate, before you start risking problems. That will dictate when the edge has to trip when it hits an obstruction.
Don't think I have ever seen a trip edge on a bucket. You got pictures?
I don't love the idea. The cutting edge is what holds an object in the bucket. I don't want mine to trip. Seems a safety concern. A snowplow is a planing machine. It shaves stuff off a flat surface, but inevitably there is some immovable object sticking up you can't see. A trip edge is essential. Unless you want to plow parking lots without a snow pusher, I don't see the value. A loader is a loader, usually objects that fit in the bucket will not damage it. They aren't really intended to dig boulders, or stumps. Initially, I thought you were talking about the rear digging bucket.
Not sure how it would work. A plow blade is like a dozer. Your cutting edge stands up, and your springs are behind your blade. Unless you had some kind of torsion bar, not sure what would allow your edge to trip, and keep it in place at the same time. When plow springs get weak, the cuttin edge trips to easy. Interesting to see your idea.
I my mind the limit is what the obstructions could take. I think you are looking for that fine line of where you peal up ice and snow and not the curbing, manholes and speed bumps.
That video makes my back hurt emmett, and made my heart stop for a minute!
Some of the big clamp on and custom snow push box blades, for loaders and backhoes, have trip edges on them. https://www.craigattachments.com/products/loader/snow-gear/ https://snopusher.com/
damn ken made a video