Looking at buying a dozer for personal use along with my deere 490E. Will be mostly clearing mountain side with rock and popular trees up to 20 inches, building roads making flats on the mountain cutting ditches out of the hollow and so forth. Was thinking of a deere 650j but was wondering if its to small at only 20,000 lbs? also I heard that lpg machines are better for steep terrian and i live in east ky so there is plenty of that. would you recomend a lpg dozer? Im not familer with the cat "finger tip" controles so would like to stick with deeres joy stick controles unless cat is just as simple to operate. thanks
LGP dozers are only better on slopes if you're sidehilling. Unless you're working in mud or soft conditions, you will not want an LGP. Sounds like the terrain is rocky, which will tear an LGP undercarriage apart. You can buy Cat dozers with a hystat (joystick) setup, the C series and G series D3-D5's had hystat available. 650J is a good dozer and I doubt you'd need anything larger going by you plan to do with it.
what size dozer to buy: Dang, tommy1984... I'd go with a 750j, 6-way, and ripper. You would be running right close to 150 HP, with a little more weight. Limb sweeps are a must , and I'd get as much extra forestry guarding, as you can possibly afford. This is the reason.... A ripper gives good protection in the back, and you can even push trees over with them... but the side windows, and the doors... Oh, lordy, the doors, seem to be the first to go, when you're in the conditions you're talking about. I've had door glass in my lap, and never even saw the spring pole that whopped me. Another area that should be guarded, is the A/C condenser, it hangs over the back of the cab... the ripper helps, but if a tree fell just right (wrong), that would be history too... and very, very expensive. No matter what machine you get, guard it as well as you can. I even doubled the thickness of my belly pans, and I've teeter-tottered on rocks, with out making the slightest dent... if they once get bent, it seems to live with you.... ... OCR...
Easy OCR, your a Deere dozer man for sure, but one of the Rocky Mtn area. Tommy1984 said he's from "the east Kentucky" area. I'm guessing that's an area within a radius of Pikeville KY. Yep, the hills are pretty "straight up" in that area. Tommy, the last thing you need is an LGP dozer. They are for muddy/swampy terrain, which ain't east KY. OCR is my bud, and one I usually agree with, but in East or SE KY, I'd take a winch on the back of a dozer any day as opposed to a ripper. The soil/rock is E/SE Ky is not hard to break. It's soil, sandstone, shale, coal, and ocassionally limestone. Nothing the blade alone can't break. But the winch can get you through the hairy situations you'll find yourself in the E/SE Ky area. I will agree with OCR on the need of sweeps and cab protection. Let one of those Poplar or Hickory limbs give you a good whack and you'll be "damn, that hurts". Your choice of Deere is a good choice. I just don't know which model would be best. OCR is a better judge of that.
what size dozer to buy: Notice the part in bold, my good friend... from "sea level country"... :lmao Here's a couple pictures of our "un-straight up"... "hills"... More to come... but I just had to fool with ya', ATCO... Also, you raise a very interesting subject... winch vs ripper. It might be a bit unfair, for me to expound on this, since I have both... but, I'll try and give some reasons, for my thoughts on the subject... Uh??... if I can remember any... lol OCR...
Also - keep in mind not to mismatch your machines if you will work them together. A 650 is a good match for a 490E/Hitachi 100 - if not even a little heavy. A D5 will bury a 490 even in an appropriate range of 50-150 feet or so, and will waste fuel for you most likely. I do a lot of construction work where I work a tractor and a shovel together and I have found that a tractor with around half the ex. weight works really well for me.:drinkup
You are right on with pikeville, I live on the martin/pike co line about 40 mins from pikeville. The reason i ask if a 650 is to small is because i have rented one before and tryed to "fix" my exesting roads but the dozer wouldent cut or tare the sand rock out of the roads. It would only cut the top off of it. I guess i could just keep cutting the top down untill I got it down to the level i want? thanks for the help.
Hmmm, Pike/Martin county line, 40 min from Pikeville...your maybe closer to Williamson WV? And I understand about the sandstone your dealing with. OCR is the dozer operator, not me, he's better qualified to tell you how to deal with it and what dozer to choose. alright OCR, Knoxville may be the lowly elevation of 886 compared to the buzzard soaring height of Lodge Grass at 3,369...but we ain't exactly sea level. :tong The Rocky Mts in your area are aptly named...they're a giant rock! For you, a ripper in almost a necessity. In our area, the Appalchian Mts have their share of rock, but the mountains and surrounding terrain have a fair cover of overburden. As for Tommy 1984, he describes exactly what I suspected; sandstone. Here's where you might be able to help with advice. The sandstone in that area is not always boulders, it's formation sandstone. The geology of eastern coal country is sedimentary formation. Coal, shale, limestone, and sandstone. So if your cutting a driveway on a light grade dropping maybe 30 to 50 feet from top to bottom, you may encounter several layers of different rock formation. When he encounters one of these slabs of sandstone, it's not like trying to pluck out a boulder then backfill, it's a considerable amount of sandstone that's got to be peeled out. I can't say for sure that this is what he's dealing with, but from my exerience in that area it's likely. What's the best way of removing/grading stuff like this? :cool2
right agian, it takes me 15 mins to get to williamson from home.. and your right about the giand slabs of sand stone too! have you worked here before?
Yep, I've worked in a few spots in that area. Harold, Zebulon, Phyllis, Williamson, Matewan, Grundy, Dante, and probably a few others I can't remember. The last time I was there they had just finished the cut in the mountain on 119 going into Williamson, but I traveled 119 before they changed it and you had to drive that switchback road across the mountain. I've stayed plenty of nights at the Daniel Boone Inn in Pikeville, I remember that place well because I had a mosquito body slam me one night before going to bed. I've drilled quite a few holes in that part of coal country, know the material fairly well.
Uhhhh...anytime now will do, before the whole world goes to bed.
what size dozer to buy: ATCO, does it resemble anything close to this type of material/formation? Take a look, as best you can, in the back ground... but I think I'm familiar with what your talking about. More or less... kinda big "plates" of sandstone, that comes out in big, flat, chunks? tommy1984... got any pictures? OCR
OCR, it's difficult to make a comparison of the structure of the Rockies and the Appalachian mountains. The Rockies are a result of extreme tectonic forces, along with some sediment formation, like basalt and gypsum. Crazy stuff out west. The Appalachian mountains were formed by tectonic shifts, but there was a period eons of years ago when this area was underwater, thereby making the sedimentary formations we have, the sandstone being just one of them. In SE KY, you can find sandstone formations range from 6" to 6 to 8 feet easily. And since it's sediment formation, that 8 ft layer of sandstone will extend for miles at that elevation, same as the coal in this area. So when your cutting an access road on your property and run across one of these sandstone seams, your going to have a bump in your road. And to remove this bump of sandstone isn't like plucking a boulder out of the soil, it could be a 6 foot seam of sandstone. I'm trying to get input from operators of how to deal with this. You ain't going to pluck the seam of sandstone with a ripper. And this seam will just laugh at a dozer blade. My guess, maybe a breaker on an excavator to bust the seam below road grade then backfill with soil to make a road. But, I'm a mechanic, I have no idea the best way to work with this, that's why I'm asking operators who work the dirt of the best way to do this.
Hmmm, are there any dozer operators out there that have a suggestion of how to cut slabs of sandstone? Hey tommy 1984, you said you have a Deere 490 excavator. Would you happen to have auxilliary hydraulics on that machine?
We have sandstone and limestone in my neak of the woods ATCO.I can rip through maybe the first foot at best with the excavator on sand stone ,After that it's like God poured a thick slab of concrete .Then I call my buddy that has a hoe ram on his excavator .He busts it and I clean it out.The limestone is different.Sometimes it runs in shallow layers,maybe 6 inch to a foot between seams and I get between the seam with the dozer or excavator and keep flipping it up.Are you building a road ATCO? Hoe-ram is probably the best Or shoot it.
The sandrock in the Letcher/Pike counties area is initially very hard and abrasive, but once exposed, it disintegrates quickly into sand and mud. Engineers would say it oxygenates. Unfortunately, it takes a good sized cat with a ripper, or a blasthole drill and some ammonium nitrate to break the original rock loose, unless it’s already been shattered by natural geological forces. That being the case, a 650 Deere will not do to make the original cut. A D8 would be better of course, a D9 better yet, well, you get the drift. The 750 Deere or a D7 might make a suitable alternate, equipped with a single shank ripper. I like a winch too, but for what you want to do, the ripper is the obvious choice. The 750/D7 would also be better machines for the size trees you mention, many of which are large Oaks, Maples, Beech, Ash, and many other species native to the area. A 650 is too light for them, unless they are cut down to a stump first. An HD16 Fiat-Allis would be good, or a good TD20 International, both equipped as above. For occasional use, a enclosed cab would not be needed, but a ROPS in your area -- with a very good seat belt is a positive must have! Stay away from an LPG machine. The rock would beat up the track shoes quickly, and even though your slopes are steep, the wider tracks would not be much help. Stay off any slope in that material when it’s wet. Best natural grease I ever saw. By the way, Kentucky’s -- and West Virginia’s -- slopes are as steep as anything anywhere, just not so long. I have many, many relatives in your area, and I lived over to Jenkins and mined coal in the Isom area for a couple of years. Also lived and worked over around Drennen and Summersville in West Virginia. Pretty, and very rugged country, would like to see it again one of these days. But I sure as hell do not miss the old highway from Pikesville going east to Williamson. Ten minutes by air, three hours by car! Good Luck!
Well, it's not me building the road 25c, I'm trying to help tommy 1984 get info on how to fix some driveways he has on his property. I was thinking the same as you by using a hoe ram, that's why I was curious if he had aux hyd's on his Deere 490. You got that right about that drive from Pikeville to Williamson. If it's been a while since you've been there, the last time I went through Jenkins they were fixin' that mountian pass on US 23 as well. But it's still some rough country.
well the drive from williamson to pikeville now tales 25-30 mins. They finished 119 and its like a dream. We dont have any attachment hydrolic hoses on our 490. I accualy mentiond this to dad ( he paid for half the excavator) and he said theres no way we will ever but a hammer on there. He seems to belive it will beat the machine to deth. But he does have his blasting liceins and dianamite so that is a option. Is a 490E consederd a tiny machine in the excavator world?
I don't think you'd call a 490 tiny. Maybe small compared to how big an excavator can get, but they're big enough to do substantial digging. Drilling and shooting the sandstone sounds great. You just fracture enough of the slab to cut below your road grade, then backfill with suitable road base. Which brings me back to my original comment; if you do buy a dozer for what you originally described, cuttings roads and removing logs from cut trees, get a dozer with a winch. The dozer blade can handle most all the material in your area (except the sandstone), and the winch will be very handy removing the logs and getting you out of rough areas that you have.