Hey guys new to this forum, I'm looking at 2 backhoes to buy and would like some input on which one is best the 1st I'm looking at is a 77' case 580b construction king with 3700hrs it has new tires and is $7000 2wd with extenda hoe the issues it has is takes forever to start, main boom on the backhoe bleeds off faster than usual and it has the 4 speed shuttle tranny, all forward gears function but reverse gears are extremely slow to get going. The other I'm looking at is a 74 john deere 410 2wd for $11,000 with 5600hrs. Tires are about 50% fires up instantly and everything functions great. I'm looking for a backhoe for my 20 acres in North idaho with least amount of downtime which one is the better of the 2?
Except for the price, the JD 410 sounds like something you can use and not have a project; find and repair why the Case won't start and why slow to engage reverse. Compression test is the first thing I'd do with it. Diesels need lots of compression to start and run. So you might be into a rebuild right off the bat. $11K sounds high for a 40 year old machine. But, all hoe markets are local; that machine might be $5K in a market flooded with machines. Only you can figure out the local market by looking at as many hoes as possible, which is what I'd do...Neither one sounds that good a buy.
The case had some blow by but nothing I was conserned about I'd lean more toward bad intake heater, alot of cases I've looked at dont start right off the bat. I was a powerstroke and cummins Macha nic for do years and am now a diesel machanic for BNSF Railway so I know diesels I'm more concerned about the tranny an bleeding boom than anything. Cost wise around here 11,000 is a fair price for the john deere. 410
I should truck my 42 year old Ford hoe to Montana; no way could I get $11k around here. The boom cylinder is either leaking, or the valve block is. Those are simple to fix, compared to pulling the trans to fix reverse. The intake heater; I forgot about your cooler weather this time of year. How does that work? Glow plugs are what I thought everyone used on diesels. My Ford had a bracket to hold an ether can and a cable to pull to squirt some into the intake manifold. No heaters...
It has an intake heater in it that looks similar to a block heater but it may not be working main thing I was concerned about was the Trans I can't afford to have it go down cause I work in eastern montana and am doing the work on weekend in idaho that's basically my question with the issues and info I provided which would be the best pick? I don't want to spend 11,000 but I'll gladly pay the difference of 4000 between the two not to have a break down when I'm in the middle of a developing my land
I wouldn't be worried about the hours but by how the machine was treated. How much play is in the bucket will give you a good idea of wear on the machine. I own a case 590sl and it starts first lick. I think the case has allot of issues and none sound like they will be easy or cheap to fix. Since you are spending so little you can probably expect both machines to have issues and maybe break down but frrom the info you provided I would pass on the case as it lacks a solid frame. Get the Deere or maybe think about buying one at auction and having it shipped in. It was what I had to do as pickings near me were too slim.
I'm pretty much at that point I found an 87 jcb 1400d diesel in good shape for 12,000 near me enclosed cable 2wd
I'm pretty much at that point I found an 87 jcb 1400d diesel in good shape for 11,000 near me enclosed cable 2wd
I think JCB are good backhoes but I hear parts can be a pain to get so you might want to check for the nearest dealer. Cat case Deere and JCB are the big names in backhoes. As far as case goes I would not go back further than a k model. I would also inspect the hoses closely on a machine of that age.
The Case sounds like it has some serious downtime built in right from the start. Engine, transmission and a little hydraulic work, what more could you ask for? You didn't mention the temperature that you tried to start it, but I would expect any relatively modern diesel in decent shape to start quickly above freezing, maybe not run smooth right away, but start without help. I don't know if your elevation is a factor either. How long have you been looking? Like a lot of things, the deal you can find depends on how long you can wait to find it. That's on the high end of what I'd expect to see retail, way more than private party or auction. edit: good point about the hoses, 40 year old hoses are guaranteed to ruin your weekend, one at a time.
I also found an 1977 case 580b construction king same as the one with all the issues for 10,000 it's 2wd no extenda-hoe has 300 hrs on rebuilt engine, has 4 speed shuttle shift Trans that was replaced, all hydraulics gone through with no leaks fires right up instantly. I need something Thursday so not alot of time to look unless I Rent which I've spent more renting that I wanted on this property. So it's either between the jcb 1400b 1987 for 11,000 which is 400 miles away or the rebuilt 1977 case 580b construction king for 10,000 200 miles away which would everyone go with?
The 580 b suffers from many design flaws including undersized pivot pins. I don't know much about JCB but I wouldnt go for a model b case. This coming from a case owner. Case backhoes are very good but thier early models were more like tractors not a backhoe. I would not buy anything older than a model d if it was me. Hopefully someone here has some knowledge on JCB and can chip in
Do not plan on having brakes on the Case: JI missed that boat on the early ones with dry brakes.
Does anyone have any info on the jcb 1400b? From talking with both owners I'm leaning more toward the jcb based off of condition and functionality
Sorry, the Brits are asleep, and the Aussies aren't awake yet I'd lean that way also, in spite of a strong "respect" for British engineering...
I wouldn't be afraid of the JCB if it seems to be in good shape. Everyone says parts are hard to come by... In my experience no harder than Cat. Actually my dealer for JCB is easier to deal with than the local Cat dealer. I don't have any experience with a JCB of that vintage, but it doesn't seem like they changed a whole lot. Does this machine have a Perkins motor?
Yes it has the Perkins 4 cyl diesel from my experience with diesel engines over the years Perkins seem to be pretty decent
Go to the JCB dealer and try to buy some parts. Pins, gaskets, hoses, whatever you think of. How much can you get in a week? 2 weeks? I've had British cars and bikes; it ain't easy....
You might want to give the British equipment a shot because in 2 weeks they would have an entire backhoe shipped one piece at a time to you from overseas :stirthepot But honestly it's not bad as all. Oil and fuel filters are normally in stock at my local Napa store, they are also able to make a good amount of the hydraulic lines on the spot. I've been able to source every failed hose semi locally without having to wait. Over the years I can remember one part that had to come from overseas, it was a steel hydro line that normally wouldn't wear out that I damaged on a branch. If I wanted to pay freight I could have had that in less than a week. Like I mentioned before, I have just as much headache getting Cat parts.
Auction time dot com has auctions closing tomorrow. You might want to look and see what they have. I bought mine there and had it shipped 350 miles for 1000. I only mention this as British engineer ing can be a pain. I would make sure the JCB is metric or standard not English as none of your wrenches will fit if it is.
Well I sold my Case super E a year ago for 12 grand and I was really lucky to get that . It was in great condition . It also took 3 months to sell it . 94 if your concerned about down time with a backhoe blow the budget , spend more get more . JD or Case would be my choice .
I have no problems getting parts, 12,000 for an 87 2wd seems a bit high but i guess you get what you pay for. My 210S 4x4x4, 1994 was listed for 15K, only problems I've had so far are electrical. I'm in Ontario Canada and needed a muffler, JCB wanted $595.00, I ordered one from Ireland, for a little under $300.00 delivered. I also have the 4 cylinder perkins, good engines. Let er warm up good and test the forward/reverse on the trans, if thats good, you should be alright. I like my JCB.
Ok thanks for the advice I'm picking it up for $11,000 and have to drive 350 miles to get it. Does anyone have any information on the jcb 1400b?
I actually found a 89 jcb 1550b locally yesterday it has a cab and extenda-hoe with rebuilt engine and hydraulics for $11,000 that I'm gunna look at either tonight or Tomarrow morning
Doesn't sound too bad, is it 4x4.
No its 2wd I don't need a 4x4 it would be nice but I don't need it
Yea, the brakes can be an issue, but I just spent alot of time rebuilding the brakes/seals on my 1968 580 CK, and as long as you can keep the seals good and not leaking, I think the brakes are a great design....purely mechanical, no hydraulic fluid. There are two brake shoes which engage a drum first, followed up by the drum expanding outward, causing two more braking surfaces, while reducing the torque on the rear end/differential gears. I posted a ton of pictures/comments if anyone is interested in rebuilding the brakes/seals on the older 580Bs.
Well,, lets see some pics on what you decided on.