Looking for a truck & trailer combo to move an ATV drill rig. We are new to the "med-heavy truck world " I was currently thinking International 4300 or Ford 750 series with a flatbed, air brakes, pintle hitch, and a tag 20 ton trailer with air brakes. Weights: Drill Rig - 26,000 max Truck - 13,000 max Trailer - 10,000 max (based on website eager beaver 20 ton 8,300lbs (plus extra tool boxes etc.)) TOTAL GCW - 49,000 80% of our hauling will be within 25 miles with a mix of interstate to city roadway. 20% of our hauling will be 25-150 miles with most of that interstate or major 4 lane highway. As short wheelbase truck flatbed with a 25' trailer I think will give us the best turning radius and versatility. The flatbed 10' would allow us to place a water tank, drill steel etc on the truck as needed (1 out of 10-15 jobs). Grant it that would require unhooking from the trailer. Am I way off based trying to do this with a 33K class truck. (Maybe we should just scrap this plan and get a ford 550 with a heavy gooseneck trailer. )
My personal opinion would be stick with a bigger truck if you're licensed for one. It will carry a load better, stop better with air brakes on the truck and trailer, and you'll be able to carry more and still be legal. Plus if you're up and down the interstate if you like like you're running heavy you're bound to get selected at some point by DOT inspectors, if you're overweight it'll be time to get the ole' checkbook out or a day off to go to court....of course a 550 style truck is a little simplier to keep after maintenance wise but it won't have the stopping power of air brakes, I think the air brakes are way better on a trailer, the electric brakes if not kept up with can be real PIA.
In this size truck I would go with Kenworth, Peterbilt, Freightliner, Ford, in that order. International is not even a consideration due to their messed up engine. Just my personal opinion.
I would agree with birken but if its older before like 06 international is not a bad choice I would not go the 550 route your to close to being maxed out gives you know room to grow if needed and you cant put a price on air brakes at that weight
If the person who will be driving has licence for a trailer on air anyway, a single axle on air is a lot cheaper used then a 5500. Also 2 25k axles on air will be a lot cheaper to maintain then 3x12k electric axles, and likely cheaper for buying a used trailer also. The gooseneck could do it, but you'd have little room/weight to put anything on deck of truck.
I've got an 05 International 4300 and gross 45k pretty regularly. It's not quick, but it does it very comfortably. I've grossed 55k with it, and it's slower than molasses in February, though mine is only a 6 speed, and it's not geared well for that kind of weight.
I will agree old Internationals are OK if that is what the OP is looking for. Just when the new emissions came around they took a major wrong turn.
Lol, I was kidding about the ford 550. That seems to be a common thread guys asking if their 350 to 550 can haul exorbitant amount of weight. Ford 550 gcwr is 40k with hd towing package. Even if we could remain under 40k we would just be wearing out tires, suspension, and brakes, that is assuming the motor and trans held up. We will have to have CDL regardless so go air brakes with the single axle 33k class truck makes the most sense to me. I guess I was wondering if we really need to go to day cab tandem axle tractor and a lowboy? Although one of our guys wanted the 33k truck with a 40k rated gooseneck for tighter turns. I don't mind spinning a trailer empty. However, I don't know that I am in favor of this. Sooner or later they are probably gonna jackknife that trailer loaded and I can just see something breaking. Birken - I am surprised you mentioned those in that order. All the grading contractors I talk to locally tell me to stay away from Paccar engines which most of the Kenworth, Peterbilt trucks come with. Most of the newer internationals I see listed seem to have cummins engines. For instance 2017 Int with Cummins ISB engine is this a bad engine? Like I said above I have no experience with this class of trucks. I will start a new threads in the truck and trailer sections to discuss specific models.
I have been out of the medium truck arena for some years now. So I haven't followed everything that has happened. However Paccar had always used the B and C series Cummins engine and just called them the PX-whatever. But you could take them to the Cummins dealer for warranty. International was using their own thing and trying to avoid DEF and it did not work out so well. I just looked at the International brochure and it appears they are using Cummins now too. But look at the PX-9 and the Cummins L9 and you will see it is the same thing just different paint. So I guess International is not out of the running if you buy new. Just be sure what you are getting if you go for an older one.
At the end of the day this entire thread will boil down to what you want to set up how nice it is and how much that will cost if your going to look at single screw medium duty trucks there not terribly expensive especially used and a good used tag can be had for under 7 grand if you look hard enough Lowboy and a twin screw day cab can be as low as 50 grand or as high as 150 grand it just matters what your goal is at the end of the day and how you want it to look going down the road All that said I try to think versatility when I buy trucks and i try to judge what I will need in 1 year and 5 years for instance I have been needing another lowboy for about 9 months for a lot reasons but I never found one that would accomplish what I wanted at said price tag last week I bought a traileze dove tail after looking for one for 3 months about 1 maybe 2 days a week I need to double haul equipment so for the last 9 months I just make 2 trips now I wont have to this move will make me much more efficient and make it easier for me to grab work I was letting go by for logistical reasons I think you need to decide what your end goal is out of either Avenue you are looking at a flat bed and tag is a lot cheaper that truck and lowboy most of the time
Birken - Are the Paccar peripheral parts (water pump, starter, alternator etc) interchangeable with cummins? The International engines to avoid are the navistar / maxforce series correct? AzIron - I do think the flatbed with a tag will be most versatile. In 1 year we may add a mini-ex which would weigh much less than the drill. In 5 years we may add a JD 120 class size excavator but its operational weight would be equivalent to the drill. We need 1) Safety, 2) Reliability, 3) Comfort, in that order. I was hoping to be under 80k-100k max for the truck and trailer used.
Water pump, most likely, it is more of an internal part on the Cummins engines; starter, probably, although sometimes mfr. specfic; alternator, maybe, but usually third party and pretty standard across mfrs. Yes, avoid the International engines from 2007 on up. Cummins even has a program to repower failing bus engines, amazing.
Birken, Thanks for the input. Guys, is there a rule of thumb for what the truck needs to weigh pulling the trailer? We are looking at flatbeds currently. Most of these single axle trucks I see pulling a tag have a dump body which will weigh significantly more than a flatbed. I assume most of this will come down to positioning the drill on the trailer to get enough weight on the back end of the truck without overloading the axle. We definitely want to avoid tail wagging the dog.
Doubtful you'll run out of rear axle on most medium duty trucks - rules vary depending on location, but around here there's limits on how much you can unload your steer. More tongue weight = less steer axle weight.
Welcome to the Forums Geodrill! Nice to see another fellow Alabamian on the board. What kind of drilling do you do? Geotechnical exploration, geothermal, etc. The reason I ask is from time to time we do clearing for the drill rigs for geotechnical exploration for new construction projects. Since you will be in CDL territory with the single axle and tag, why not a tandem axle with a flat bed? Locking rear ends on a tandem will provide better off-road traction than single axle. A heavy single axle will tend to "sit down" in soft soils where a tandem has the ability to walk out. I see the tandem axle truck with flatbed hauling a water tank set up pulling HDD drills around Central AL. Might be a better option than a single axle for around the same money.
I will have to check on min weight for the steer axle. CM - Geotech exploration is what we do, and yes we hire out our clearing. Some sites are better suited to test pits which we also hire out. What part of AL are you in? I am slowly broadening my search to include tandem axle. I was hoping a single axle would be feasible. I was initially thinking shortest wheelbase, with cheaper maintenance( less tires, brakes, etc). Most of the time the truck will likely remain on pavement hooked to the trailer. Only in the middle of dry summer would I risk going out into a field with the truck, or it has to be a gravel road at a minimum. However, it looks like a tandem flatbed may not give up much in length. A short flatbed in single or tandem axle with a pintle hitch is harder to find. I think we would loose quite a bit of money if we buy a dump truck and then swap the dump for a flatbed. I think daycab single axle or tandem converted to a flatbed would cost less. Still gotta dig into that part.
Geodrill I'm in Birmingham - born and raised. What is your budget for the truck and trailer?
CM, I was thinking no more than 50k for the truck 22k max for the trailer. Ideally, I would come under that. I think its pretty doable on the truck. Gonna be hard find on the trailer. I havent found any good used trailers. Most of the used ones ar have been sitting in a field for 10 years.
NepeanGC, What gear ratio, rear axle, and hp is your truck? It sounds like you are pulling pretty comparable weight with 45k.
Geodrill take a look at Betterbuilt Trailers in Double Springs AL. http://www.betterbuilttrailers.com/ I had them custom build a 54K pintle hitch back in 2005 and still use it today. Very well built, decently priced local trailer manufacturer.
Cm, Talked to betterbuilt Mid to late january for a build. But that is to be expected, that doesn't seem like an unreasonable wait time for a custom trailer. I just can't wait that long is all.
That's not a bad lead time at all considering the Holidays. Have you looked into Winston Trailers? Another local company that builds nice trailers. I have a 14K pan tag along that's been great, don't know much about their heavier trailers.