So whats the reason auto makers don't offer a Jake brake in pickups and med duty trucks? I know the exhaust brakes in the newer trucks work good. But anyone that has drove a truck with a true Jake brake knows that exhaust brakes just don't compare. I read in the past there was a aftermarket company working on a Jake for the 6.7 Cummins, but not sure if it ever hit the market. So why is this not a factory option? We all know there are plenty of pick-ups pulling loads that could benefit form a Jake.
I suppose it's feasible, but the smaller the engine, obviously the less room there is for adding hardware, spacer plate to raise the valve cover, etc., then the hood hits it or something else is in the way. Also with today's electronic controls and emissions regs you would probably have to have the full cooperation and blessing of the engine maker, interface the jake controls with the engine ECU. Since none of the smaller engines to my knowledge use mechanical injection it would require the jake system where the intake or exhaust lifter on one cylinder would open the exhaust valve on the cylinder approaching TDC. The exhaust retarders are quick to install, they work and with today's braking systems usually adequate. Maybe the short answer is, the manufacturers don't want people pulling those big loads with their products, even though they know full well it happens. The legal team probably uses the big red "NO" stamp on the suggestion.
In addition to what lantraxco suggested, I'd imagine cost would be a factor, and demand. I'm not sure what percentage of buyers would opt for it, they'd have to sell a lot of them to make them affordable.
That would all come down to cost. Most people I know would consider it money well spent if it wasn't a huge amount of money.
I know I would!
Me Too! You seen what they want for a exhaust brake? & I cant help but think that it's half the power of what I really want.
The company I used to work for had an electromagnetic drive line retarder installed on the lowboy tractor. it worked great, but they had a lot of u-joint/yoke problems going into the power divider. It was soundless and smooth in application, but you didn't want to use it before coming to a stop as it would build a lot of heat and needed the air flow when moving to cool it. I don't remember the brand name, but it was similar to this: http://www.klamamerica.com/KAC Info EPM-ECM.pdf I don't recall how pricey it was, but it was sure nice. Perhaps they have improved them now and the heating is not an issue. I think the u-joint problem may have been caused by incorrect driveline angle. They can be installed in place of the carrier bearing. Might be something to look into:idea I hope I"m not breaking any rules here, I am not endorseing this product, but rather putting the link up as an example of the product.
Have you been under the valvecovers of a 6.7 cummins, a duramax, or powerstroke? There is simply no room. Pacbrake was making a new rockerbox for the 6.7, but it wasn't a true jake style brake, it simply allowed a normal gate style exhaust brake to work better by constantly holding the exhaust valve open during operation.
I just got done a job where I was pulling a 33' racecar trailer with a '07 Dodge 3500 with the 6.7 cummins and it had the exhaust brake. Loaded truck and trailer came in at 23.5k. The exhaust brake worked as well as a full blown engine brake IMO. With proper planning I had no problems bringing the whole rig to a stop using nothing but the exhaust brake.
When Jacobs first started marketing their engine brake in the early 1960's, their were alot of drivetrain problems at first. Especially rear ends. The vibration associated with the Jake brake was tearing them apart. I realize this was a long time ago and things have improved but I would think that vibration would still be somewhat of an issue.
Buddy of mine has a Dodge 5500 with the 6.7 & factory E brake & it works Awesome!!! I have read & been told that the Dodge/Cummins has the most effective E brake in a pickup. You really need to try one with a trailer behind you, you wont believe how good they really do work.
Well I shoulda bought a Dodge but thats a entirely different thread.
Maybe I'm confused on how a Jake brake works, how is that not a true jake brake style? I was under the impression a jake opens a exhaust valve after the compression stroke.
Can you imagine the large horses of wanna be truck drivers using them while empty or inclement weather, resulting in gobs of senseless accidents? Hell, a big cam 400 Jake can lock a bobtail tractor down, in the dry, at 30 mph. Besides, if you don't use the brakes, corrosion related binding can occur early.
Yea jake opens exhaust valve just before tdc to dump compression, holding the valve open all time dosent hold any compression at all it just stops the (rebound pressure) after tdc and that helps a bit but not as much
Telma is probably the name. We used to run them on medium-sized ambulances and they work great. I'm not sure what problem they could ever have if you used them down to a stop because ours worked every time you pressed the brake pedal automatically in stages and they worked great. There is not much to them, just a big chunk of iron similar to a brake rotor but much larger, and some magnet coils that use a whole lot of power. They are very heavy though and add a lot to the tare of the truck. They also make a hydraulic version, Cat brakesaver is the same thing, or they can be standalone, or integrated in an Allison transmission. Again it adds weight and abuses the oil of whatever system it is coupled to. I still prefer Jake brakes because they don't weigh anything practically, don't compromise any other system of the truck, work the strongest, and can work at full power for however long you need to.
Chuck Norris has jake brakes in his shoes...
The Telma systems are great my FD specs them on all of the engines and one of our ladders have it also . Totally seamless operation pretty powerful too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
……… When I was up North hauling Logs 25 yrs ago, there were a couple of guys that had them on their Superliners w/500hp and the dumb-ass Dynatards system that was Macks answer to a Jake (the only thing that worked worse were the Jimmy's with a Jake ……. kinda like rolling down the window and flapping your lips …LOL) ……. Birken Vogt you are def correct about that the system uses alot of power ….. after those guys took out a couple of alternators they wound up installing a second dedicated alternator to help keep up the power levels ….. but they sure did work well !! …...
I drove a DM600 with a 237 Maxidyne and Dynatard, and while it wasn't as effective as a Jake, it certainly helped me out on downgrades. Is the 500 a V-8?
Yup ! …..it was a V-8, if my memory serves me right it was ~1100 cu.in. block ??? …. I remember it was more cubes than a 3406B Cat a little less that the 3408 Cat V8 ??? ….. it was "SWEET" to drive and listening to that chugging awesome torqued V8, especially after just coming off of a Screaming 475 silver Jimmy that you had to drive like you hated or stole it all the time, LOL …….. You are right about that, the Dynatard was way better than just the pedal in the middle ….. but we were loaded all the time between 50 and 55 metric tonnes, hwy and 70 tonnes off hwy.
OK ! …. It bugged me so I went and checked it out to re-update the 'ol noggin ……. The Mack E-9 500hp V8 was 998 cu.in. …… and the 3408 Cat V8 was 1099 cu.in I knew something was 1100 cu.in just was grey on which one ….LOL …. So its a self correction ….. cheers
Thanks CRAFT, the company I worked for had a few V-8 Macks and I'll agree the Dynatard wasn't as effective in them as the 6 cylinders for some reason.
I'm just glad they don't. Think of all the wanna-be truck drivers with loud pipes jaking at every hill, stop sign, curve in the road, and upshift.
the biggest reason they can't make a Jake or compression brake for todays smaller diesel engines is simple. the lifters. for a compression brake to work you need solid lifters, and all pickup truck engines today have hydraulic lifters. I don't know how the newer exhaust brakes work, but from experience with them years ago, you were better off sticking your arm out the window to create a resistance to slow the truck down. all they did was make noise...
The modern ones are way better than they used to be. Pretty much all the small to mid range engines come with the heavy exhaust valve springs as standard now to allow them to be installed on any engine with some pretty agressive back pressure settings. The Cummins ISC, though, switched to using a real Jake brake when the DPFs came along and that thing will slow the truck down right away even without downshifting.
Around me jake brakes are banned everywhere now, can't imagine what it would be like to have everyone having them in pickups too, but while on the subject of jake brakes, my wife thinks the greatest invention ever would be to put one on a harley, she thinks if she knew how, she's make millions, imagine how much more noise a harley would make with a jake on it, not so much for braking but for more noise. As for cost being the factor they are not being sold, at about 40k or more for a fully loaded diesel pickup, can't imagine some more for a jake would deter anyone from putting that on a new pickup as well, maybe when they run out of other garbage options to tack on a pickup, jakes with be the next "new" have to have option on a truck.
Didn't Yamaha or Hodaka used to have compression release mechanisms on dirt bikes in the 70's? I am not a motorcycle enthusiast, but I seem to recall something like that from friends that were.
I think you and your wife are right on all countse except one thing: they make little to no noise with these new DPF mufflers, at least no more noise than the truck when it is pulling a load. The average Joe couldn't tell when the Jake is on or off on a modern truck these days. However, that won't help with the yay-hoos who gut their exhaust and go straight pipe. It makes me laugh to hear an empty Dodge pickup taking off from a stop sign that makes as much noise as a semi going up the freeway. Right again, I remember Rick Sieman the dirt bike columnist mentioning using it to slow down in one of his comical stories about desert riding, but I have never seen one that could be used that way. I think they were gone by the mid to late 70s.
Why do the Jimmy's with Jake's not work good? Something to do with the 2-stroke design? Why are solid lifters a must for a Jake to work?
They were something you got from the aftermarket, although some engines came from the factory with a second spark plug hole, which made the install easy. All the cool kids had a compression release.
A jake brake in a Dodge pickup? , I can't help but wonder how much more irritating the straight pipe jerk wads that run around here could be with that kind of thing to play with. The Jacobs compression brake in the bigger Cummins engines used movement from the injector pushrod to operate a slave piston and kick the exhaust valve open, at the point of maximum cylinder pressure, to create a total energy loss at the top of the stroke. It's pretty hard to duplicate that in an engine that doesn't have an injector pushrod.
YES they did have them as an aftermarket add on on any 2-stroke dirt bike with the second sparkplug port ! …… I HAD them and still have one on a (now called vintage) Suzuki TC 185 … ~1975 this one, and the first we had were on a Suzuki TC 90 (1970), a Suzuki TS 185 (1971) and a Moto-Beta 100 (1968) …….. these were not just a gimmick they really did work good ….. so good that in the wrong gear (lower like 1st or 2nd) and enough RPM (too high) in could damn near put you over the handle bars going down a Hill (toooo Steeep) ….LOL…. but used correctly they were the cats bumbum to prevent rear brake lock up ….. OMG !!! am I dating myself now or what ??? …LOL… Thanx for the reminded Memories ….. cheers