These are some photos of our Type 2 water tender when I was doing some measurements for a pusher lift axle. Truck came from Canada... notice the distance between the drive axles... this is commonly called a "Canadian spread". The small blue stakes are electric fence posts. They have a big nail on the end and a tab that sticks out for your foot. You hold the top and just step them into the ground... they work great for tent stakes too... Didn't take me long to install it, did it...
yes the canadian spread is to make it easier to get between the axles to grease the drive shaft. how much more with the lift axle give you??? thansk KoO Published Author
Real lift axle installed: My brother driving on scales. My brother filling tank from city hydrant. OCR
Empty weight. Loaded weight. Side spray. OCR
Awesome truck, do you guys do a lot of wild fire work?
Why the lift axle? When ever you are on the OES, USFS, BLM's or any state, county or city's payroll while responding to, from, or working on any fire assignment you, are allowed to bypass any and all commercial scales. Unless the laws have changed, thats how it was when I was contracted out to CDF with my 6x6 Mack DMM in the mid 80's.
D5G, Thank you... as far as work goes, it more or less depends on how bad the fire season is... thanks again. OCR
Why the lift axle? Pete, We had to comply with some new USFS regs. not DOT regs. But we still have to be legal on the highway from the CVSA stand point. Most every thing in your quote is different now... it's a boarder line night mare. If you want, go to that thread about Wildland Fire Dozers... it's still page 3... post # 39... read the post and use that link. It's kinda odd that I was looking at a CDF web site just before I logged in here; and saw your trucks. There nice and are you still using them for fire? CDF has changed their name to "CAL FIRE" now... yes all cap's. We're in Montana so it would be unusual for us to go to CA. but according to a wildland fire site I belong to, you've got fires in your state right now. I'm not much help here because it's hard to under stand the Government and the way they do things... talk about one hand not connected to the other... and of course, throw in all the turf battles...about enough to make you...:crazy OCR PS: Pete, there are a few guys I know... both dozers and water tenders... that are just saying to hell with it, and not even signing their stuff up any more. The fire service looses a lot of old timer experience when this happens, and it's a big shame, because it's irreplaceable. Take care now, OCR
Some one is pulling "THE HOOD"wink on me, EH!! oh no... and I always thought it was to make it easier to get 3 railers' hooked up...oh my...
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ok, still have not heard how much the pusher axle gives you. to me the axle weighs more then what you get in pay load. in the background behind the john deere 650G known as one of the "Lemon Sisters" is buddy barry's water truck. we tossed a 5000 gallon tank in there 4 years ago for hauling water to the diamond drills. a 3" honda water pump is on the deck behind the cab and only takes about 25 minutes to fill. water is great fun at -45C but we haul every 6 hours so it gets even more fun. all fire fighting up here is done with water bombers and fire crews in helicopters. thansk KoO Published Author
King You need to check the specifics on a particular application - as there are a lot of variables - total wheel base length,distance between axles, as well as axle and tire ratings - all effect what you can legally carry . Safety wise you get another set of tires, brakes, and springs - takes out some of the pucker factor! In general they provide a good increase in payload
In the Kingdom you would loose traction and as Koo spends half his life on ice I dont think the pucker factor comes into it :drinkup
OCR what is the legal weight for a 10wheeler where you are? Here in PA you would be perfectly legal hauling 58,000 lbs with a 10wheeler
Why the lift axle? I'll give this a stab, and try to keep it short too. First to my friend KoO: The lift axle is rated for 13,200 lbs., it's made by Watson & Chalin, and it is steerable... forward direction only... it lifts up when you engage reverse gear. The axle actually did increase the trucks GVWR from 50,000 lbs., to 63,200 lbs. And this is why... and I hope I get it right. Also, this is only FS , not DOT... On the manufactures weight sticker, they go by GAWR (gross axle weight rating)... the weight the axles are designed to support. Ours looked something, more or less, like this. On second thought, I'll go look. OCR
This is the sticker I'm talking (typing) about. All the FS cares about is that you do not exceed the weight on any axle. Maybe more to follow...big storm right now... probably lose internet. OCR I did lose internet, probably happen again too.
This is the Forst Service. And probably my last fire dispatch...
i got a question around here water tenders that are contracted by usfs are required to have some type of warning lights on them why don't you have any?
The picture appearing here must be due to the stability problem with my satellite internet connection... as noted by the spelling error...:beatsme OCR
Warning lights: Hello fireman050, I actually don't know... it is not in the solicitation... the solicitation and a multitude of other documents list what the qualifications are for this resource. On post #3, the last picture, you can see a small amber strobe... We just put this on when we were watering for some highway projects. I don't know if it was even necessary for that. What State do you live in? OCR
Montana weight limits: dirt digger, The last I knew... Montana allowed 34,000 lbs on a tandem, and the steer axle was exempt. Exempt must mean... if you have the axle rating... say 20,000 lbs., and the load rated tires... you would be ok at 20...there is a whole bunch of other factors that come into play though... like total GVWR, bridge formula, interstate or secondary, even road conditions during spring break up.
AtlasRob Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: West Sussex UK Posts: 412 Quote: Originally Posted by OneWelder King You need to check the specifics on a particular application - Safety wise you get another set of tires, brakes, and springs - takes out some of the pucker factor! In the Kingdom you would loose traction and as Koo spends half his life on ice I dont think the pucker factor comes into it The dot may frown on it , but all the trucks I have had anything to do with you could adjust the air pressure,and raise the axle from inside cab. Like i said dot does not like, but is necessary for trucks going offroad in slippery cond. Do not know about your area, but around here the the old logging roads do not always go stright up and down the hills- they just meander through the woods - top heavy loads on side hills may or may not create pucker factor- but extra suspension helps spell relief. I should also mention that some tanks have neither baffles or seperate compartments. Stop to quick with a partial load , the surge from the liquid will move the truck from inches to feet. More pucker, and extra brakes won't stop this, but I am sure it cuts the distance down. Of coarse on ice this would not matter, but then you would not be able to stop to quick .
mississippi here most guys use a mini rotator bar on the cab and two rotators on the rear and there are some that go all out full size bar leds and strobes all over the truck
koO recycles pics i see ..also nice handles on the dozer lol
RollOver Pete, I really enjoy your pics of these water spraying bulldogs! Do you have any in-action shots for us?
Do they REALLY care about weight if there is a raging wildfire? I think the strobes should be mandatory, purely from a visibility standpoint because you could be right in the middle of a smokescreen and you want to be seen. Thats for sure.
Thanks FatCatGotHot :drinkup And welcome to the board. Back in the mid 80's when my father in law and I had the Macks, I didn't even know what a digital camera was. I know I have a few pics of them working, I just don't know where they are. If I do find them, you'll be one of the first to know.
Why the lift axle? D.16.1. Equipment Weight. At the time of inspection, engines and water tenders may be weighed empty and shall be weighed fully loaded and fully equipped without personnel and their gear with the following exception*. Two hundred and fifty pounds (250 pounds), which includes appropriate gear, shall be added for each required crew person. CE shall not exceed the manufacturer’s GVWR or GAWR when fully loaded and ready for operation: full fuel and water tank, personnel, and equipment. *Vehicles that were listed on an awarded 2006 Northern Rockies Geographic Area Best Value agreement may use the scale slips provided during the 2006 inspections in lieu of being reweighed IF: a) the apparatus has not been modified, and b) was at least 5% underweight on all axles at time of initial weighing. The Government reserves the right to reweigh equipment at any time. WATER TENDERS : Tanks shall not exceed the GVWR or GAWR of the vehicle. A physical overflow device, tank filler, or spacer, which limits the amount of water contained in the tank to meet the manufacturer’s GVWR and GAWR are not allowed. Vehicles without GVWR and GAWR ratings will be rejected at the pre-award inspection and will have to reschedule to another regular inspection time and/or location when certification is acquired. NFPA 1906 Baffling Standards are REQUIRED, including transverse baffles. OCR AG-0343-S-07-9002 PAGES 4 OF 125 REGION 1; NORTHERN ROCKIES WATER HANDLING EQUIPMENT SOLICITATION EXHIBITS Through Amendment No. 5 This was copied and pasted from part of page 4 of a 125 page PDF doc. I forgot to past the REGION 1; NORTHERN ROCKIES WATER HANDLING EQUIPMENT SOLICITATION ... reason for edit. and of course ...modem went down from another thunder storm...so I just sit and wait or I lose the whole post. OCR
I know it doesn't make sense: D.2.1.1 Vehicles that have emergency lights may not use them when performing work under this Agreement unless directed in writing by the Incident Commander to do so. :beatsme...:Banghead OCR
We failed this inspection...800 lbs heavy on steer axle... about 100 gallons of water. This caused us to basically become invisible to the FS. This time period was for one year !! A good friend down the road squeaked by and passed... he grossed around $70,000 that year with his tender. OCR
A bad place to go... honest: http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/fire/nrcg/a...andTenderSolicitation_exhibits_amendments.pdf The PDF document can be accessed above... link seems to work. OCR
Hello Pete, thanks for the welcome! That shot of the Mack against the sun is great. There is something like holliday-feeling in it! Can you specify the equipment you had on these three trucks? I can see 2 spray-nozzles under the front bumper and in front of the left rear fender there is something that might be an hose reel. Regarding the 6x6-layout of the Macks, I guess you did dust-control and fire fighting support with them, right? Cheers, Max
MAY NOT use them, wow that really smart of them right there. I guess I really wouldn't care if visibility was low and traffic was still comming thru, i'd rather risk my contract than have to buy a new rig. Or worse someone slams into you and gets hurt or killed, again my personal opinion.Great topic btw.
How cool is that? Found this one at truck paer: http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1707299&guid=655C6F634F35469891D7A30B6DE33472 A front discharge mixer converted to a water truck. Never seen one like this befor. I wonder why Advance offered these. Maybe to get another use for their 6x6 offroad trucks?? Or is there any advantage of a water spray truck with an rear mounted engine? I like the look of it. Looks freaky! Would love to run here in my town, cooling people down on our very hot summer days. Make em start dancing on the streets and loosing all ther clothes. LOL Cheers :beerchug, Max
Did Advance also make asphalt-dispensing truck? Tilcon runs a bunch of them mostly for curbing work.
Our local quarry took one of their old front discharge mixers and converted it to a yard water truck. They use the drum as the tank, welded a bung at the bottom of the drum and ran a 3" hose to a homemade boom on the back of the truck made from black pipe. I think the reason you see these conversions is you get extended use from a truck that might not be road worthy any longer, and it keeps the expense down on a required piece of equipment.
That thing is awesome! Now for all of us collectors, we need a model.
I second that.:salute First Gear makes an nice 1/34 Scale model of a Oshkosh front discharge mixer. Looks like a good start for a conversion.
FatCatGotHot, Sword has a 1:50 model, I just might have to give it a try!