Just got hired on with a well known heavy highway construction, asphalt and aggregate producing company in New England after 3 months of waiting, calling, and finally getting interviewed, drug tested, and oriented. Started Monday, and they went easy on me. Hired as an excavator operator and eventually a foreman for a pipe crew on a 2 yr. long project in town here, but was a loaderman and haultruck driver yesterday. No big deal, it's 15 min. from home, so that's a HUGE deal considering there's absolutely no other work around these parts unless you want to be gone all week. Been there, dun that, got the T shirt with the fleece and the hood. Ain't goin' back unless it's absolutely necessary. My problem is in the fact that I am wired to do a days work for a days pay. Fair, honest days work. Give it my all, the whole 9 yards. I guess 20 years as an owner of a small business has a way of instilling that trait in oneself. This job isn't like that at all. The project manager's a young guy that basically doesn't do much but ride around in his pickup all day. Ask him a question, he doesn't know. Kind of tough when you want to know what you're doing first thing in the morning. Nobody knows. There's never a plan. Today, there was a deflated water dam that needed to be folded up. It took 9 people standing there for a good hour to decide how to go about it, including a foreman. I suggested we get all the wrinkles out of it, and get it on level ground and just get it done. I got the deer in the headlights look from 5 or six of the guys, and decided to stay quiet and let them figure it out among themselves. I guess none of them ever folded a tarp, blanket, bedsheet, etc. Not rocket science. 2 hours later, after I walked away to keep what little sanity I have and to prevent the "dumb" from rubbing off onto me, they summoned me back over to help again. Same deal, 8-9 guys standing there, staring at this 12X50 deflated bladder. No matter what I said or attempted to do about straightening the wrinkles, several of the 20 yr. olds would chime in saying what they thought needed to be done. I stood silent again, and played the part of the deer in the headlights with the rest. Here's the problem...I'm not comfortable with the deer in the headlights syndrome. I'm ready, willing and able to go to work and perform a full 13 hr. day as originally anticipated, in a machine or otherwise in a position that would require me to maintain a steady, continuous pace. Having no structure, no veteran leadership, and guys 1/2 your age running a job that has a deadline of 2 years of heavy highway construction in 2010 is proving to be disasterous. It rained last night, so they never let anyone do any machine work. 6 leased haul units, excavators, loaders, and laborers all standing around for 3 hours doing nothing, till they decided to send everybody home.Claimed the haulroad was too greasy. My thought was, wouldn't it be advantageous to spend an hour spreading some stone on the inclines to bind them up (even though in my personal opinion they were just fine to work on,) so we could produce today rather than sit idle? I know, stone's expensive. But they have plenty of it, and a couple thousand dollars worth of aggregate (if that) compared to the 15K + dollars that they claim it costs every day the leased equipment sits idle, seems to me to be a positive alternative. My problem is, I'm 2 days into this job, and I'm nervous. What would some of you guys do while in your midlife crisis like me...would you just "go with the flow" and let the dumbness enter into your head and blend in like everybody else, or would you hang onto your integrity and keep the search on for something that would make you feel fulfilled? This is a tough one. Again, it's only been 2 days, but the outlook is grim given the way things are structured, which is not very much structure at all. Thanks.
Makes you wonder how they could make any profit. I have done work for outfits that have drag ass leadership, it's a disease as far as I'm concerned, which I hope to never catch. Feel for ya. Good luck
I hate that feeling! If I was in the same position, knowing that work is sometimes tought to come by right now I would stick with it, doing my best to not get dumb, fat and lazy. Make sugestions to people that seem to know what they are doing, to correct something or keep things progressing. You might just end up replacing that guy riding around in a truck that hasn't got a clue about aything. If another good job comes along then take it. Till then keep makin a pay check.
Thanks for the shoring up of my spirits, guys. It's a tough call when in this position, can't cause any waves and don't want to...plus I'd prefer to have things smooth out so that I could maintain a "normal" workload. Not too much to ask I don't think. I could see if it were the other way around (too much work,) but I'm actually REQUESTING some.
Working for myself its hard to say what I would do in your circumstance. But i guess I would prolly go with the flow or no flow in this case. Maybe you have to be there longer to get a average of how its going to be. Maybe it was a couple of rainy doldrum days and things looked bad at first.? If your inclined to work it wont be long before you get up the food chain and can offer some of your knowledge to a crew and get something accomplished in a days time. Good luck. doug
PS. I miss the lowbed stories. But I'm sure you dont miss the highway. I thought you were working for a contractor in N.J or something putting in condos. You mentioned mid life crisis , I think I'm do for one of those coming up soon. haha :drinkup
I did the same thing 10 years ago.. went from a business owner to an employee I was also used to 12 + work days. What I finally realized was that as long as I did the job that I was given no matter what, I was not responsible for anything or anyone else. I was hired from the neck down. I also figured out the less I know about a job the smarter I am !
I know where your comming from, I may be one of those half your age guys, I'll be 21 next month, But I have a good Idea of how things need to look at the end of the day and what needs to be done to get there. That's the main reason I have never left the family business. Been do this stuff since I was 6 and was a fully time excavator operator at the age of 14 working 50 hour weeks. I go to work, usually have another helper and we get things done with out any hand holding. You show me what you want, leave me alone, and it'll get done. Not trying to be big headed or sound like a know it all, but I've yet to see another 20yr old who has abilitly or willingness to do what I do on a day to day basis. Of course everyone wants to run the equipment all day in the a/c but sometimes you have to get out of the cab, pick up a shovel and get things done. I've helped several other contractors we know a couple years back when our worked slowed some and It just drove me crazy on how things were done. I mean oneday we were putting bolts in concrete. I mixed the fast set concrete in one cup, one fellow held the bag of concrete, one held the bucket of water, and the other held the bolt in place till is hardened. so that's 4 guys, lets just say $12.00 and hour each, so $48.00 and hour to set little 5/8" bolts on concrete. Something one guy could have done. And talking about **** pore planning. We graded one area oneday, then seeded and strawed it. it rain and puddled up some so we were sent to regrade and re straw. then the project manager decided that the ditch needed to go to another spot so guess what, re-dig and re-straw. Did that about 3 times before it was finally done. I found out that what I can do in 12 hrs with 3 guys I can do in about 7 hours by myself. The more people, the more time you spend BSing with them. I say do what you have to do, work is work, puts money in your pocket.
I was in the same position a couple of years ago. Use to work for a family business, dad and I butted heads I left. Went to another company that is much larger. I was hired as an operator/foreman. Ended up getting stuck driving a vac truck sucking drilling mud. It was very disorganized also. I wasted so much time looking for watermain parts. I ended up starting my own company and doing my own thing. Much more work, but I wouldn't change a thing. Pipeguy
As long as your paycheck is there on Friday, and it clears the bank, don't worry about it. They're obviously not worried. The last few weeks that is exactly the attitude I've had to take. It sucks, but life's too short to get all flustered over other people's incompetence.
I know what it's like to be in that position, but here's the thing. Unless you have a healthy savings account and can go for a while without work, I'd just try to get along with the way things are going. I'm a union operator that got dispatched to a job yesterday to lay pipe. Come to find out today some hangup on the job shuts them down for a week and when they come back next week, it'll be without me because they're going to be pushing very few hours out there until they get things completely figured out. In times like this, it might be best to think about who's paying your bills and maybe biting your tongue a little bit. I don't know, that's just my .02.Either way you decide, hang in there, the answer will be clear eventually.
is it pike im just wondering
Keep plugging away. Some one will recognize your leadership abilities and get you in the drivers seat. Getting hard to find folks with your morals. Would you move to Iowa? We're always looking for people that have good work ethics.
I'd move to Iowa tomorrow Johnsoils , if there was a job awaiting that I could utilize everything I've absorbed the past 30 years. Once the real estate market bounces back a little and we get this hacienda sold, I'll be contacting you! LOL :drinkup Hey DigDug, these midlife crisises are tough buddy. I was in CT. on that condo site, but I was homesick. Then it was Springfield, Mass. every day, but $300.00 a week in gas (116 mile trip each way every day,) with no reimbursement soon made me realize I could work closer to home for substantially less money, and have the outcome the same or better in terms of pay. Those lowbed stories are starting to look good to me again...hahaha. Not good enough to give up my place at the dinnertable yet though. My own bed is another reason why I'm struggling with sticking this deal out. catd8t: You hit it right on the head buddy.Tell me, do you know if it's the same way over on your side of the river with them? I'm told they're fairly new in the heavy highway BUILDING sector, not aggregate, paving, etc. They're on top of their game in all the other areas I'm sure. I've been around their operations in various capacities over the years from hauling blacktop from their different plants to hauling the liquid from Portsmouth,N.H. feeding all the asphalt plants in the state as an owner-op. a few good years ago. Everybody was happy, laid back, glad to be on the team in those areas.:drinkup
yeah its like a tug a war with them and continental paving. i havnt really seen pike do anything other then pavment. continental paving has more road work
I echo what many have said here. I am only 24 but grew up working side by side with my dad, grandpa, and uncle. They were a no bull S*** type crew and if somthing needed to be done you did it and didn't fuss around. We would usually have 2 jobs going at once and if there was a large project comming grandpa or I would be off starting with the scraper moving black dirt. Never did you ever just stand around, even on a rainy day. There was always somthing to do. I know working for a larger company now that things are done different and alot of days drive me nuts cause I think somtimes things are done way to fast and somtimes sloppy. But I have been brought up to be FUSSY. Hang in there, as one old guy used to say, " I was looking for a job when I found this one." Trbo
Go talk to the owners, tell them you can do better. Take over the job. Lead these youngsters show them how to do it. I feel your pain. Our general forman is always asking us what to do and how to do it. I love to work for a leader, or do it myself.
I'm hearing you guys. I don't think you'll ever find the "perfect" environment anywhere, it's all in the perspective you keep I reckon. Today was a lot better...I was "occupied" for most of the day. There was talk of rain at about 2:30 p.m., so the job shut right down with the sun blaring, while the crew went to blow mulch and get ready for the big storm. By 5:30 it was sprinkling, and they turned us loose. That's fine with me...11 hrs. is enough anyways. Especially with 4 of them in a haul truck and 4 of them in a loader, and 3 just creating something for myself. I am surrounded by all kinds of different breeds, young dudes that run everything right to the floormat all day with no remorse, to old dudes that think it's OK for the young dudes to beat the eve******* snot out of machinery. This one kid today ran a haultruck as I loaded him. He would come barreling back to me as I had a full bucket ready to put on him, and be going so fast that he'd skid to a stop every time and slide past the point where I was staged. I was on a brand spanking new Deere 644J with 3.5 hrs. on the clock. I'm treating it like my own, being Mr. slow and steady, and the kid's shaking his head at me because I'm not in 3rd gear like he was an hour before because he had to be the first to run it himself. They have him on a brand new 850 Deere dozer too that won't get the expected life that it's capable of either. It's a shame to see, but it has to just roll off your back I guess.
There's nobody to blame but management for the guys running wild on the equipment. Eventually, you'll be noticed as the guy with his head on straight. Good deeds don't go un-noticed and eventually the kids will get what's coming to them.
I agree. I was told once by a grizzled Irish guy on a bridge crew I used to work on " Laddie if ye ha' it in ya ta lead LEAD" I hate seeing people standing around breathing from they're bellybuttons.
Keep on keeping on, the slackers just make us look better, right? do what you can and dont sweat the rest as long as your check clears.
Your not nuts at all, we know from your previous posts My advice is to start asking some stupid questions to your managers/foremenn. Ask questions u know the answer on, and in a way so that theese guys comes up with the answers. Like: I'm new here, and not that familiar with the prosess on this project. Can you maybee spend some time on your computer and make a list of what prosess that follows each other here? Then your boss will think, thats a good idea and make a product he can show both you and his supers.. Next question is to ask if this "workprosess" list can be equiped with timeframes. In a week/two/month you will have a boss with a plan and time schedule for the project. After some time your boss will understand that u are not as stupid as the rest and your job will change in a second. But don't show that u know the answer for everything, thats making your boss feel stepped on. And be carefull, there is always a hidden leader in the group, and they are testing you out before you are let in. When they accept u, you will soon be the leader of the group because of your knowledge and skills in making the job done quick and easy.
I'm almost feeling awkward to think it's ME in this position for some reason. Usually, I'm mentoring someone else. I see it getting better every day which is consoling. Today, I was informed a 314C is coming Monday for me to run, which will keep me busy doing miscellaneous ditching, erosion control, etc. That's a good start. I also was taken back a little when the assistant manager asked my advice on what to do about a kid who showed up 2 hours late for work for a second time... He was at a loss for words with a form to fill out regarding the employees behavior patterns.I lent my perspective by saying it's time for a talk about the "3 strikes and you're out rule". I'm thinking MKTEF is correct in saying there are "hidden leaders" among them now. It's time for me to use my leadership traits gently but seriously and I think they're receptive to me eventually being in a leading position.:drinkup
Well as another "IRISHMAN" and as an old timer told me many moons ago "sonny the first letters you learned at school were "A B C " ALWAYS BE COVERED are you the G.F.? No! then have a chat with him ,your PM is probably on his first job so is depending on project management software and wont last long, My advice GET A DIARY fill it out daily. As a foreman you're responcable for safety, so address it. I have given years as a heavy civil foreman on road jobs motorways etc covering all aspects of the job and I all adressed safety first,so everyone goes home safe and it's amazing how everything else fall in to place with a little disipline. LEADERSHIP is not to know everything but to know enough and some people who can fill in the blanks . hope this helps STOCK
Sometimes these companies have crews that get lost through the cracks and you just have to fit in. I've seen it back when I started out and in the FD as well. Sometimes you have to just make gentle suggestions or head off in your own direction and take the lead to get things done. When I first got hired in the FD I was told that it didn't matter what I did, just be able to explain my reasoning as to why I took the action I had. As long as I had a reason and could explain it, I could do no wrong. I started my own business and have learned that without the goal explained to everyone everyday nothing gets done. Without a daily plan you may as well stand there and scratch your @##. The FD taught me to delegate, and a good manager will continually delegate responsibility to those who can get things done. Sounds like your supervisor is already utilizing you and capitalizing on your strengths. That's a big company, and getting bigger. They just bought out a local company here and this am I heard they are trying to swallow another one near me. Good luck with it.
Sounds ALOT like the company I'm working for right now.
Been there, done that, same as some others here. Not a lot of dirt-smarts in younger people coming into construction now. They haven't grown up on farms or ranches, nor ever been involved with heavy equipment in any way. Then there are the outside factors. There are way too many entities and people involved now in construction work. Tons of half-baked engineers and designers that haven't half a clue how to build anything, let alone show or tell someone else how to do it. There are people from every agency on earth all claiming to have some jurisdiction over a certain portion of the project, and all going at it on their own schedule without any coordination or cooperation with anyone else. There is a boatload of folks determined to make it as difficult as possible to do any work at all. These would be environmental and safety inspectors, plus people from the various state and other govermental agencies whose major concern seems now a days to be prolonging a project so that they can stay employed at maximum cost to taxpayer. Young project engineers and managers are the bane of construction and mining. Learning must begin somewhere, but one wishes that it were done on someone else's job besides yours. It can be very difficult to work with some of these guys, just like young officers in the military. They just don't know, but are too prideful or afraid to show it or ask for advice and help. Some mention here to step forward and show your leadership and inititive, but that's risky untill you know better just how the ground lies and how the politics of a job are set up. Move to soon and earn the ire of some fellow workers and management. Be careful! Old hands are scarce now, pre-boomers are gone, many boomers are retiring or going out on disability, and we taught our kids to get a degree and stay away from hot, dirty, dusty work. I've seen this coming for quite a while, as have others. When you get on a site today, look at where the laborers, finishers, drivers, and operators are coming from. Hint, they commonly do not speak English. I'm glad to be out of it myself, though I'd love to operate some more, but the body is not willing to absorb the punishment, and I'm not willing to put up with the BS involved in today's work environment. Too many chiefs, not enough indians. Good Luck!!
There'a way too much of the "We can't do it right, but we sure can do it over" mentality around these days. As if the slowdown in housing, and wet weather this spring wasn't enough, now I've gone and accidently torn my rotator cuff! 11 days waiting to get the surgery, and who knows how long afterwards until it's good enough to run a scraper again.Assuming there's any work to do by then. Oh well....I feel your pain. Alan627b New Smiley we need here....
Don't worry we got it, and starting to need it more and more. :deadhorse
lowboy i know what u mean about what u have said i might only be a 20 year old but i grew up in constuction. i uslally get thier talk to my foreman and then go to my dozer check it out then start her up grease then clean my excess and go back to my foreman to see what im doing. it would drive me nuts as the pipe crew and the labors sit thier and talk not getting anything ready we get payed 30 mins in the morring to do our PM and just becasue u dont have equipment doesnt mean u can stad around and get payed for it. i worked with this old guy Ray the guy could hardly walk but one hell of an operator well in the spring when everything is mud we would have to clean tracks even if i clean mine every night even if it wouldnt freeze. well we would stop at 430 and park and clean. well all the labors and other guys would just take off well i would always but out last cause im not tracking the dozer half a mile out just to track it back and every day Ray would be their and id stop and help. just cause im not getting payed for 15 min im not not going to help someone. maybe thats why i run the equipment and the old kids as i call them still run the D-1
Sorry, but I've been experiencing computer problems since a lightening strike a month ago here, and finally got a new one. Surfer-Joe...your experience, boots-in-the-field time, wisdom, whatever you want to call it shines through all the time. You've seen and done everything most of us all are into or about to get involved in. You explained everything I personally am going through currently on this jobsite right to a "Tee". I found out recently that this is the very first heavy highway job this outfit has ever taken on in it's entirety. Even though they've been around a hundred plus years, their forte' is in asphalt paving and aggregate production. The source I was talking with explained that in these economically difficult times, the corporate neckties figure they are guaranteed the paving and aggregate sales if they were to take on the whole project. Therefore, it would all average out in the long run....hopefully. Being a man who's "been around the horn" a little bit myself, the second day showed me I'm dealing with way too much overwhelming nonsense to try and overcome it all with basic common sense and standard operating procedures that I've applied over my lifetime. Fresh-outa-college inspectors and OTJ trainees that work in that field, along with 1 year veteran project managers, substandard materials to work with and many other variables are making it hard to keep a long term goal of being a foreman with this outfit a realistic position I think. Here's a great example: Friday I was assigned to a really important task...building waterbars off the haulroad to divert stormwater. They have some specs. to them, depending on the degree of slope. Mainly I was asked to "eyeball" my work, so it's fairly mindless for me to form a swale that is 18" from top of berm to bottom of swale. I built about 5-6 of them by 11:00 a.m., and upon inspection by a 21 yr. old female inspector with a wooden rule, was informed that 3 of them needed to be 2" higher on the downside of the slope. So I had to waddle back across a 45 degree embankment and add an inch or two to the already completed "eyeballed" swales. Then I was asked to put in a tracking pad approaching a town road, with 4"-6" stone, fabric underneath, and a culvert pipe for the haultrucks to cross the road. Halfway through the process, the decision was made to eliminate the culver pipe, just put a piece of fabric down, fill it with stone and wrap the stone. The state didn't want to pay for the $120.00 pipe, so they wasted fabric and stone instead. Water didn't pass through the stone as planned, and ended up with a dam which shut the project down for 2 hours until a different approach was taken. By then thankfully, I was doing something else. Same thing across the road. Building a footing for a bridge abuttment. Raised grade 6 feet in lifts with granular material right in a mudhole, water flowing everywhere. Engineers decided to put underdrainage around it finally to drain the water. 2 laborers up to their knees in mud placed a 6" pipe in the proper area, only to have 4 engineers tell them to remove the pipe, and wrap some stone instead. Didn't want to pay for the piece of 6" pipe... It's all tough stuff to swallow, but it's the way it goes.:usa
The last dirt job I was on last fall was a Roman circus. The contractor didn't use grade stakes, just GPS, but not every machine had that either. Now dump trucks and scrapers I can see not having the new high tech stuff, but the dozer and compactor I was running didn't either, and I was the one spreading most of the fill. The motor graders all had it, but they weren't always around and there were times when I laid fill in at a rapid pace, and cause I had no reference points, it didn't always go where it was supposed to. Then the grader operators would raise hell cause they had to pull it back in. For several weeks, the contractor GPS equipment and the State's GPS equipment wouldn't agree on grades, so no work except some basic pioneering. Water was another big issue, I never had a test fail for moisture or density, but caught hell all the time cause I wouldn't let the water wagons turn the fill into mud. Like many older dirt stiffs, I was taught to "eyeball" grades on cuts and fills with occasional reference to a grade stake. Slopes and curves were brought in to fit the natural situation, not fulfill some designers opinion of what is politically correct or pleasing to the eye. But this is a banned practice these days. Every inch has to be "engineered!" But then, at Christmas, the contractors GPS stuff all got stolen, and the new stuff they bought to replace that wouldn't compute either their own previous data nor the State's. Job was down again for several weeks. (It cost over half a million bucks to replace the stolen GPS equipment. How many grade stakes and surveyors would that have bought?) There were State and Federal highway inspectors and engineers on the job, also Bureau of Land Management people, folks from the Bureaus of Indian Affairs -- both State and Federal, Environmental engineers both State and Federal, let's see, oh, also people from the State and Federal Parks entities, and last but not least, all kinds of "consultants" and "experts"! I know exactly what you mean by some junior engineer coming over and saying that I went out of the ROW or knocked a bush or Cactus over that was marked to be saved. Grades changed daily and we moved a lot of dirt twice or more as people came and went with different ideas and interpretations. These supposedly highly trained and educated people often didn't use a lick of common sense nor exercise any judgment on small details. And if it looks good on paper or a computer screen, build it, no matter what actual field conditions indicate. Ya got to get to a person over fifty with years of time in grade and vast experience in the field to find sense and judgment these days it seems to me. Years ago, when I worked with asphalt, we took especial pains to lay a smooth mat. That often took a lot of hand work, but when you drove over the road, you could set a glass of water on the dash and never see a wiggle. Not any more. If you don't have a lid on that glass and have it secured in hand, you're going to get a bath. I'd be ashamed to say I laid new blacktop in some places I've been the last few weeks, it was terribly rough. Concrete is even worse. Most places now it seems that the contractor doesn't even try to get a smooth surface. They just pour the mud down and rough finish it, then a few days later they run a grinder over it, directed by……, you guessed it, a GPS. Used to be, we always did extra careful work at overpass and bridge transitions so they would be smooth without a thump and bump. That seems to have gone by the boards now. My wife and I always duck when we hit (literally) one of these spots in the road. It either that or hit our heads on the cab liner as the truck springs up in the air onto the overpass. Having a trailer hooked on only makes it worse. Why are State and Federal inspectors accepting sloppy workmanship like this? I see a lot wrong with the way our transportation systems are built and maintained. I think there are way too many things being given weight that shouldn't be of any consideration, and the most important items are given lip service. I see this in commercial construction too, particularly in one of my pet peeves, which happens to be egress, access, and simply moving through a simple parking lot. If you drive anything bigger than a Smart4Two these days, you will have trouble getting in, out, and simply having enough room to maneuver around in most modern parking lots, with their long rows of curbing and impossibly tight turning radius's. Not to mention parking spaces that are only wide enough to get a small car in and out of, but not enough room to get a door open. The moronic architects that design these things are all smoking dope in my opinion, or trying to win a prize for the most beautiful and exceptionally most useless and difficult to use parking lots possible! City streets are the same if not worse. Center dividers, curbs, planters, and medians drive me crazy. In some places you have to drive miles out of your way simply to make a U-turn or drive into a Wendy's. This saves a lot of fuel you know, ha, ha, but doesn't do anything else that contributes to smooth and efficient traffic flow, which is the only good reason that there is a street or road there in the first place. It's not meant to be a thing of beauty, or something for the local horticultural club to plant flowers in every other weekend. OK, I had fun with this, just venting you know. There are a lot of good people out there trying their best to do good work, but the way we spread out engineering, responsibility, and oversight in construction these days, it's a wonder that anything gets done at all.
Surfer Joe :notworthy :notworthy :drinkup The frightening thing is so many of those things that you mention are the same this side of the pond, and I agree it is NOT FUNNY :Banghead
So it's safe to say then, most likely...that I'm NOT nuts!:beatsme :usa
Now... let's not be to hasty here :lmao...Welcome back buddy!!
Thank you for shoring up my confidence Mr. Grader...:thumbsup:waving ointlaugh Good to hear from you also.
Just keep plugging away and building resume' time as well as getting the ever critical paycheck, the resume' effort will provide you the springboard to better places down the road and also just as important, builds your character in a positive way.
That's all good stuff, DustyOne. Thanks.:thumbsup
Your not nuts..............yet stay tooooo long and you might be. You are of the dieing breed that still feel responsible and have principles, you expect to do a days work for a days pay and there is nothing nuts about that. Keep your chin up, dont let them drag you down to thier level and if the management cant see it after a fair crack of the whip, ..................then it will be thier loss not yours and move on. Good luck :drinkup
Nuts??????????????????? Hi, LowBoy. "Just take their money and smile." I have worked on jobs being run by people who would be flat out organising themselves into carnal satisfaction in a brothel with a grand in their hand. It's never a pleasant experience to see wasted time, resources, manpower and bucks going down the tube. All you can really do is to learn how NOT to do it while you are there and keep your eyes and ears open for something that can/will utilise your talents a little more productively, thus giving you a little more personal satisfaction. Try not to let it get to you. Do what you are asked/told, as, when and how you are asked/told, make suggestions where you think they might do some good but also remember that some managers/supervisors resent any appearance or indication that any of the 'indians' might know more than they do as a 'chief'. It is pretty important as an employee to remember that somebody else signs the checks and that does give them some right to spend their dollars as they see fit. The most important thing in this sort of situation is to not let the situation drag you down to its level. Always do the best that you are allowed to do. If it's not up your personal standards, just remember your own standards for future reference somewhere where they WILL be appreciated. Do what you can to lift their game. I doubt that you are nuts at the moment. Whether that remains the case is mostly up to you.
I'm in the same boat. They want me as a foreman for a underground crew, but I don't feel I'm up to snuff. The questions I have to get me up to snuff can't be answered to my standers. The best thing is our safety meetings that are 45mins. long and not a word of it in English. Then I get ask if I have any questions and I just started laughing they didn't get it. Oh well I haven't worked for every company in Houston yet, so on to the next. I love my occupation, but its getting harder and harder to go to work every day. I've started taking off at noon once a week, hoping for rain, and praying for the day my wife makes enough $$$ I can be a stay at home husband.
Wow that sounds like you are really on a downer and not like you from other posts of yours I've read. Keep you chin up buddy. I find it amazing that the safety briefing is not in English first then again in what ever is required for the other workers, I take it as an English speaker you are in a minority, in which case the briefing should be done again in English or issued in hard copy for your benefit. If the company wants you as a foreman they obviously feel you have some experience to bring to the table, are you aware of what that is, English, leadership, equipment operating experience, your the biggest bloke there ? My experience of underground work is big ££££$$$$ and although a new experience at the time not that different to what I had done before. Good luck in your endeavours and keep you chin up :drinkup
Thanks AtlasRob, Deas and Dozerboy. I am going through the "motions" every day and after my 3rd week in the trenches, it seems to be getting a little easier to handle all the nonsense. I am careful however, not to allow it to completely consume what little common sense I still possess. At least I've been fairly busy with an excavator every day (almost every day.) That makes these 13 hr. days go by a bit smoother. In between I've been used as the mulch truck driver, the water truck driver, loaderman and a few other various tasks. Tuesday we were rained out while I was doing some common excavation on the haulroad, which is basically a road we are building out of the virgin material out of a 60 ft. deep cut, and is the consistency of talcum powder. Now drive 5 140K lb. haultrucks on this stuff all day in the rain, and it makes for a miserable deal not only for the drivers of them, but the guys like me who are trying to maintain this folly of a road. So, to keep us working in the rain, the PM had 3 of us operators and 2 utility guys assembling and weaving wire into gabion baskets for 10 more hours.(Hate to see what that cost them in labor alone with 3 operators doing this.) The baskets measure a meter square, 4 compartments. Thurday I was assigned to place them in a pond that has been an environmental nightmare to this project since day 1. The design calls for a gabion wall of 3 meters wide, by 3 meters high to segregate the fish in one side from the frogs in the other, and to chink the 4-6" stone in so there's no voids for fish and frogs to escape their domains. I wondered with deep, emotional thought... how come they were living together before we arrived with no problems...now we are seperating them. Isn't that a form of discrimination?:beatsme To top this all off, the specs say there must be 10 frogs in the frog pool once we have completed the wall. What if there's only 9? Now what? Where do you buy frogs? What if they don't match the spec's of the existing frogs? So much to ponder... To make matters even more awesome, we have a fresh-outa-college, by-the-book young man with a white hardhat as an inspector representing the state of Vt. watching every move we make, and believe me, he is. We pumped the pond dry, moved the 1turtle and the 10 frogs (work was shut down while the environmantal people handled this matter) over to the other side of the pond being held back by an inflatable water dam. Now it's my job in the 314C CR to get down in the quagmire, and establish a firm base as a subgrade for the gabion baskets. They won't take my suggestion of using the same 4-6" stone that's going to be inside the baskets as a footing to firm it up, so they have me take what gravel I could steal from behind me that had to be cut anyways, and put it in the low spot which we just freshly pumped out.I mucked it out the best I could to hard ground to enable a wheel loader to bring me stone, but 2 trips down in there, and it was trashed. I don't have to explain to most what this looks like now. I build this "jello pad" to grade and set a basket, and begin to fill it with stone. They can only be filled a 3rd then need 2 wire crossties in each compt., then fill another 3rd, etc. Guys inside the compartments tamping this stone in with sledgehammers, too. Now the inspector takes a 4' level, and starts checking the level of the wire baskets. Right from the factory they're distorted, bent, and uneven, but here he is with his level. Then he shoots a grade, and what do you know...the jello pad changed elevation. Huh, who'd of ever expected such a thing? Lastly, inspector Cluzeau determines that the gabion baskets are just shy (1/10th) of a meter high. Tried to explain without scarring his pride that once filled with stone, and nothing on either side to back them, that they bulge out, causing the shrinkage. He didn't care though...he shuts the project down and is making us remove the first one, and order 21 brand new baskets.They'll have to be special ordered, because these are standard 1 meter, but he insists that they have to be 1 meter WHEN FULL of stone. I pity the engineer at the mfg. facility who has to figure that one out. This, and other hairbrained activites on this and many other jobs, are the sole reason why tigers eat their young. Keeping a steady, calm and relatively steadfast perspective remains a challenge to me, but as Deas Plant said, "Just take their money and smile"...Good advice, Deas. I needed that. I'm also under direct orders of a 23 yr. old brand new foreman who won't have anyone suggest anything either. Makes for a long day, but I'm determined to keep my cool, enjoy my 12 mile drive back and forth to home, and take my 33 hours average overtime every week, as long as I can now.:drinkup
There are different factors that play into how well compensated you are for a given job. Some jobs pay for skill, some pay for hard work, and some pay for an ability to tolerate aggravation. Most jobs are some combination of the three. It's management's function to determine how they're spending their money. Just remind yourself every day that this one is heavy on the latter of the three, and that, in one of those ways or another, you are earning every penny you take home....
Well said, digger. Early on in this project I determined I had to let go of my natural sense of trying to calculate costs and do everything as efficiently as possible. That doesn't pertain to this kind of jobplace. My current perspective now is of the latter you mentioned; I get paid to TOLERATE.
I said it, Lowboy, but I really don't believe in it. It's just a method of coping with what you can't change. By nature, you want to make them realize that paying people to "TOLERATE" is naturally non-productive at best. I'm the same. That place would drive me nuts too. :Banghead :beatsme
I'm with you 100%. I am surrounded by people that play the game and are way better at it than I could ever imagine to be. Another form of toleration I find tough to cope with is the abusive operators. But unfortunately they are all part of a "clique" with the foremen involved as well. One kid in particular runs a brand new 850 Deere, a new PC 400, and anything else he can play with. It's always in high gear, forward and backwards, at all times whether it's on tracks or tires. He even wears his ballcap slightly cocked to the side, with a little **** eating grin on while he's beating on the equipment. I look at him and want to take a cattle prod with new batteries and show him the business end. All my life I ran my family's equipment, friends and eventually my own...and learned one valuable lesson if nothing else. BE SMOOTH in every function. If it breaks, you don't work. This concept doesn't stand up in the crowd I'm surrounded by. Just because every piece of equipment there is delivered brand new from the dealer with 1-2 hrs. on the clock, doesn't give anybody the right to abuse it. There's a policy at work if you damage something and it costs $500.00 or more, you get an automatic 3 days off without pay. It's a shame to say that most of the damages to the machines there will show up long after they're turned back in off rental, and some other poor sap is going to be getting the short end of it's lifespan unfortunately. Driving a haultruck with your foot to the mat, then sliding to a stop for 10 feet doesn't help anything, nor does running track machines at full speed ahead/backward, or pounding on rocks with the bottom of a bucket with all it's force. Agent...this is all good stuff to take into consideration. You want to seperate yourself from the crowd? Run everything like you own it, and would have to fix it yourself. You'll make the spectators like I just told of mad because of your smoothness and respect for the machines, but you will eventually be recognized by the right people for your actions and how you perform.:thumbsup
Thats is lowboy we need to learn to play the game. I wander where I need to go to school for that? Good luck I think if you can hang in there it would really pay off for you since the company you work for is just starting this division up. You may be able to get in to a position where you can straighten things out before they get accepted as the norm. Thats why I'm jumping ship I know there is no changing anything where I work. The guys have begun to accept me though I have earned a nickname "wheto". For those of you not familiar with "spanish" that is a slander for whites. Its ok I kind of get a kick out of the fact I bother them enough that they feel the need to give me such a nickname. Good luck lowboy
I hear you there Dozerboy, I just came from a similar deal 2 jobs ago myself. Things are seemingly getting "better" by the day for me here. I've learned to adapt and overcome (I left out "improvise purposely, because that wouldn't be accepted,) the situations I'm in nowadays. After spending a couple of days doing some meaningless utility work with a couple laborers and getting to hear their perspective, I suddenly realized the way to beat the "can't take this anymore blues". One guy in particular stated, "If they want to pay me over $1,000.00 a week for doing NOTHING, I'm their man..." Once I looked at it from that angle it became a little easier to cope with the days when there's nothing meaningful to do, like today's probably going to be like. There's several projects we're awaiting approval on, so it's pot luck when it comes to an implimented plan today and till we get a go ahead on some stuff. Until then, I'll just "take their money and smile", as Deas Plant stated. It's not my personal attitude to do it that way, but it's all in your perspective how you'll survive this kind of sillyness. So far, it seems to work. I'm not coming home wanting to kick the dog, throw the cat in the pond, (although that is fun...they learn how to swim IMMEDIATELY, ) and be a miserable sob 24/7.:drinkup
Wow.... this is quite the thread. I can sympathize with Lowboy on this one. This year our company has adopted a no pot policy on site, which is great for people like me that don't smoke. Last week my foreman who is big on this policy smelled a couple of the pipelayers smokin up in the ditch. He went over they hid it and he let it go. Again a couple of others came up to him to tell him what was going on and he ignored it because he is afraid of losing a pipelayer that our main hoe operator likes. On friday morning someone wrote a lovely comment about our wheel loader operator in the port-a-john. He brought it up at yesterdays safety meeting and when the foreman refused to do anything about it he called Human Resources. They came out and we lost a operator thats been with the company for 15 years because he wasn't in the game to see a foreman that was an operator for the last 10 years and now won't stick up for his men. As for abuse on equipment.... I have a brand new Dynapac packer on site, it has 300hrs on it. The woman running it shuts it down constantly during the day, at the end of the day she roars up to the laydown area and shuts the engine off at full throttle. 300hrs and already it pours out blue smoke constantly, the turbo is on the way out.
Ouch:Banghead:Banghead Thats really bad, someone should say somthing to her for doing that, or just take her off that machine and put her on the old shovel for a day and see how she likes that. I cant stand seeing people treat equipment like that. How hard is it to stop at the end of the day, let it idle, while you do a walk around or go bs with the crew for a few minutes.
Well you are kinda pale :roll:lmao:stirthepot. Anyway back on topic, I fell your pain Lowboy when I started my last job I was accustomed to the get it done as quickly as possible but still do it right and this company did not belive in this it was more like casualy walk over and wait . Well 3 years later I have gained 30lbs and become slightly lazy. Started a new job last week and fell like a truck hit me when I get home, luckly I still have my "go in and get it knocked out" mentality that I used to have but not the body for it . That will change with time if it don't kill me first, but I am much happier and I'm learning something not just going to work
You're hitting close to home here, MRM99.. Today was a "down day", worked 13 hrs. and accomplished absolutely NOTHING in the process. There's no organization, plans, or communication whatsoever here on this job. I'm a "git er done" kind of guy, so this deal is like Chinese Water Torture to me. I try to maintain a neutral attitude about it all, but it's a tough act. I've got 21 year old supervisors who listen to "kill yer parents music" all day in their company supplied pickups, and don't seem to care about a guy who is looking for something to do to keep him occupied. Being old enough to be their father is an awkward situation to be in. The "foreman" today came over while I was getting a 3" pump primed to fill a water truck and opens the cap to the pump primer fill as I'm trying to get it to take a prime. I say "Hey, you're messing me up here"...he refused to take any advice and had me go do something else. I can't take those stupidity moments very well...:drinkup
Actually for us, thats pretty normal behavior for equipment, almost all of our packers do that. A lot of the actual operators do the same. I was running our 710 yesterday for a bit when the service truck got there, I drove up, put my stabilizers and bucket down for greasing and let it idle. The service guy was in awe that the 710 idles, he thought as soon as you put the bucket on the ground the machine stalled. And lately I have had to take a new hoe operator under my wing... except he is 9yrs older than I am. He was sent to our site to run our Deere 270. His first day working beside the ditch he always walked his tracks parallel to the ditch with an unstable bank. I asked him what he would do if the bank gave way, he said put the bucket down. I looked at him and said no you can't there are guys standing there. I told him to put his idlers facing the ditch so that if something happened he at least had the chance to back himself out. At that point he got in a 5 minute argument with me that the idlers are in fact called bottom rollers. Rant ON!....... As for our crew.... Yesterday was an eventful day, we were cutting services for a commercial park and the kid cutting grade with the main hoe operator doesnt know how to read cut's on grade stakes so he cut a service around 6ft low on the far end so the sewer services were in fact draining to the building from the main. 17 guys stood around for over an hour trying to figure out what to do, with the foreman off playing in the dozer on the other side of the site because he doesn't have a clue whats going on most of the time. Their solution.... fill the deep cut up to grade with washed rock (3/4" stone) and then lay the services. I mean ok... yeah you filled it, but now you have used up a lot of rock at 1100 bucks a truckload and when they put the sand in for the bedding within a couple years the sand is going to creep into the cavities between the rock and the service is going to be all messed up again. I mentioned just let me backfill the service with a couple lifts and then re cut to the proper grade. The topman gave me a speech that it would cost too much money. It would have taken 15 minutes but nooooooooooo. I know I have made many a pic posts here, and talked very well about the company I work for, and I am by far a company man. But over the last week or so I have been re-evaluating whether I want to continue with this crew... and if I can't be transferred to another crew... I'm goin to run a D10 on the pipeline. Make me some good money and go visit Alco up in Ft Crack! Rant OFF.
Well guys I told you that I am now a civil servant but at this stage I feel like taking a long run off a short pier ,cant go into details but but lads if it appeared in police acadmey or some such comedy we would all laugh with the opinion no one would be that stupid but my god its beyond laughable with no one responsible and no one gives a dam ;in fact they live in an unreal world its so bad' well look there's ,one excavator is a 06 and has only 650hrs on it genuine ,no operator changes a bucket the fitter does ,etc dont know how long more I can stick it ,if they moved any slower they would be in reverse
Started my new job today. It was amazing there was communication in english even, and I didn't redo anything 3 or 4 times. Might just have a winner.
hey hey now....lets not generalize...sure 99% of people our age are lazy xxxxs...but you've seen all my pictures on the "other site"...HAHA...that was all my work you don't look too willing to do "anything" based on your comments in that manure thread in the Ag. Section of this site
OMG Lowboy that is funny! Hang in there as long as you can, until something better comes along. I feel your pain, we are currently working for a large out of state GC that only cares about the cost of the job not the quality. No change orders, just get it done whatever you gotta do, but it's me that has to give the warranty.:Banghead Needless to say, this is the one and only job I will be doing for these guys.
I work with a pretty good group most of the time, well alot of the time I am alone, but the other guys I do have to work with are all pretty good. Only beef I do have is when they run MY excavator. Now being in a rock quarry is not easy on things from the start but pulling rock down off a face with the drive motors facing it is bad enough, have had one time guy wasn't on it for 10 mins and ran a rock between the tracks and under the cab ripping the travel lines(took 4 days to get them). Amazing as it is, the counterweight is NOT that bad, the guy who ran it before I started had repainted it before and in the year I've been here it only has the very bottom scratched up(I will fully admit getting into some rocks at the quarry myself). Anyone who runs equipment and says they have NEVER done any of those things are lying through their teeth. Even good operators have some things happen once and a while. I didn't get mad at the guy running it when he tore the travel line, I explained to him what the best way was to go about what he was doing. He hasn't had a rock on the tracks since. Some just dont' know what is right and wrong. Others just DON'T care. Trbo
haha thats just plain stupid, you mean that between 17 guys it took that long to figure out that the crap was going to flow the wrong direction? ointhead I dont just blame the grade reader for that one but everyone there espically the operator for not being able to figure out that the craps gotta flow out of the building, not in!!