Looking to get a used backhoe. Which brand/make should I avoid. Any help on this issue would be great.
I am far from an expert but I can tell you I am glad I bought a Cat. Parts are pretty readily available at my local dealer. If they don't have it in stock it is only a day or two away. I have only found stuff like body parts are no longer available from the dealer. I have ordered stuff like hydraulic pipes, heater valve linkage, clips, latches for doors, etc. My machine is a 426 built around 1989.
Thank you for the reply
Welcome to the Forums TROP! What do you want to do with the machine? For backhoes one brand to steer clear of - TEREX.
Work around house, farm, woods etc. not for a business
The deere and case hoes have a certain series ( year) where..... after that point, major components of the drivetrain were able to be serviced without "splitting the tractor". ( JD 310 "b" vs a "C" ) ( think I have that correct ) I would research that as a beginning point. Not sure about the other brands with regard to that point. Any thing will need service at some point...... and with a used unit that could come sooner rather than later. The older the deere, the more difficult to source parts is what I have found/heard. Not so with Case.... from what I've seen ( no 1st hand there). The best advise is to operate the machine.... you need to see it at operating temps.. and need to get an idea of how tight ( or not) all those pins/bushings are. This might mean you need to take some 'advisor' along for the look see. A lot depends on your price point as to where you might be on the 'wear meter'.
Do you want one "turn key" or do you expect to buy a fixer upper, and become the best guy around to fix that model? Plenty of newer backhoes, and plenty of fixer uppers available also. The older you go, the less the particular model matters, and the more the care and condition of the particular one you find matters more. If you want one that is most trouble free, I wouldn't argue with a clean 580 K or M, I think after that they get lots more electronic controls, and those don't age the best on backhoes that don't get used much.
Big fan of the case 580 series,if you can find an older one in good shape before all the electronic stuff,not to bad to work on,pretty good supply of parts.The John Deere’s are really nice as well all about the condition and how they were maintained.
Welcome to HEF, TROP !! Don't even look at a DynaHoe or Fermec ! A Massey Ferguson with the rotary swing motor on the backhoe is another one to avoid.
If your looking at a older Case 580c I know some maybe all had a drive shaft from torque converter to the Transaxle. Makes it nice to remove it , can be done easy. Unbolt it , raise up with stabilizers, take wheels off and drag out with hoe.
It may be the particular dealers I (used to) work with (I am retired from this game). My experience is that Case machines and parts are numerous. I had less trouble with them than I did the Cat 426D machines we had . JD parts were not well supported. When my neighbor decides to sell his poor old wore out 580SE, I will put in an offer. When my old company decides to sell off their lightly used, low hour 426D machines, I will boycott the auction. Your mileage almost certainly will vary.....
I second Terex and anything with a rotary swing in the no category. Deere, Case, Cat would be my top 3 backhoe picks if I was looking.
Owning a backhoe is expensive. Renting might be the way to go. If you must own one, a 2000ish year model can typically work circles around a 1980ish model.
Or better yet, rent someone with a backhoe so you can just stand there and point at stuff.
No, No, no. Go to a ritchie bros auction. Buy the older looking one with that nice shiny new paint job, especially if the hoses and wiring is all painted too. The new paint is the evidence of the loving care the machine has had. Of course buy it only because you have absolutely no idea of dirtworking, but you're a expert in a totally different field, and of course that will translate. You'll pick it up as you go along. Then post 567 questions on the equipment forums, such as "how does the grease get into the machine?" "Can you use the bucket to scrape the ice off the windows?" "Can you climb into the machine from the door on either side? and how does the door open? Does it close the same way?" "Can you dig with the back bucket, AND dig with the thingy on the back, at the same time? Then you can dig twice as fast right?" Don't buy a owners manual, and if you do- don't read it. Just post up all 567 questions here. Of course then you must take it out, and dig various holes all over your property. Especially right along the road and driveway (don't bother with one call- that's too complicated). Better yet- go dig all along the neighbor's property by the road, where the plastic red and white little poles are. Throw some branches through the back window. Hang the rear frame up on a stump of a tree you just cut down. Then variously rev it through all the gears, shifting back and forth as fast as you can and jamming on the brakes also, trying to unstump yourself. Totally extend the extendahoe and try to drag yourself off the stump. Swing and bang it off the oak tree, to slide the rear off the stump. Tie it to your trailer house. Fill the fuel system from the old farmers tank that was on the property when you bought it, diesel lasts forever. Don't get new batteries, build a solar to AC to pony motor conversion and belt drive it off your harley to start when its -37 degrees. Forget to put the cap on the hyd tank after trying to put the diesel in it because it looks like a fuel tank. Go ahead and weld up that crack that appeared at the bottom of the tower, next to the DO NOT WELD DUCTILE IRON stamp. With the 110v welder from Harbor Freight. Grind the steel that your scabbing over the crack on the boom, by the hydraulic tank that you left the cap off- its got filters- it will be fine. It will soak up the rain that got in the tank. Complain that the new paint covered the bondo on the crack. Then call Vetech63 or funwithfuel to fix the rear end, transmission, fuel and hydraulic system, and bent extendahoe. After partially disassembling it yourself. And not marking anything. Their wives need Christmas too.
All the while holding a can of your favorite beverage Hey Trope...I recently worked with a guy that we called Trope...was short for his last name. Anyhow, as to your question. I agree, that there are machines that are stay away from machines. That said, without the proper support even one of the "better" machines can be a nightmare when they break down. Another thought...as new as you can afford! Many of the machines got better over the years. That coupled with the ability to acquire parts more readily. So to me, find out what brands are serviced locally. Find out if the dealer is any good, then look for the newest model that the wallet will allow. I personally think that if you buy any of the major brands such as JD, Case, NH, Cat, you will not be disappointed in their ability, given that they are working properly.
If I were to buy a 2000's model backhoe in my neck of the woods it would be a Deere and I own a 2003 420DIT bought new..and I'm a Cat guy. Take it for what it's worth.
The C series was the first Case with the component system and I would go no earlier than that, The earlier were basically farm tractors specially adapted for utility use but solid chassis which made servicing the power shuttle and transmission hard work, A good mechanic can have the reverser on the floor in 45 minutes on a C-D-E- early K.
Stay away from any Case machine that has a 6 or a 7 as the first number unless you are an expert mechanic, and have some heavy equipment experience. I'm not necessarily putting any 680 or 780 down, but they are not machines for the inexperienced. Period. Same goes for Deere.
710 Jd is an odd duck. old 610's are similar weight, HP, components to a same era 510 or newer 410 so they couldn't have had that much wrong with them.
Ran a710 b model for about 13000 hrs thing was huge! Really good machine able to set manholes pretty easy thing was a beast!Then we got a new 410 g also nice machine big fan of the JDs Around my house my 580k serves me well for an older machine.
Not saying there is anything wrong with the 610/710, just that they are way more machine than a newbie has any business messing around with. JMHO
If anyone is operating any 700 class T/L/B they need to be on a constant watch going under overhead wires.
That’s for sure,drove through town quite a few times,always dropped the boom a foot or two on the 710
i Like the case 580's C or newer when buying one. Stay away from the rotery swing motors on the back hoes. stay away from the early gear style shuttles., like Ford and IH had. The coller that slides between forward and reverse gears. is a hard one to find. The WG ( not borg werrner} clutch style shuttles are hard to find parts for. allis used them. Before buying look for parts advaialilty for the basic componets that go bad. like the shuttle clutchs, the torque converter. Hydrolic pumps. brakes. Look around and see what people are using in your area . It useuly means parts are around, and they are good macines. I should have stepped on a lot of toes by now
Do you need a hug today? You seem a little grouchy!
I started with a JD 410. A fine tractor except no one understood the hydraulic system. It was a real education getting it fixed. Next was a Case 580K, tractor hadn't been loved enough. Found a very well loved, low hour 580K. Swapped out the extend a hoe & joystick system, painted the first one & sold. Bought a JD 410C. September, I sold Case & JD, bought a newer Case. Until now, I've had bad luck with John Deere parts availability, but excellent with Case. JD is a smoother operating system, a lot less jerking around with the hoe.
LMAO..... and you surely don't want to spend hours on a jerky hoe! .... a few minutes maybe !?
Thanks to the ability to ask 567 questions, and get cogent answers, I was able to take what I read in the manual, and add to it so that I didn't get hurt, and didn't destroy the hoe. I was very happy that no one got nasty, and I was able to learn. Getting a piece of heavy equipment is a whole new thing for most people. Nothing you learn about cars, or normal manual trades applies, so it's like diving into the deep end with no preparation. Thanks to this forum, I was able to succeed. Isn't that why this forum exists?
Yes the forum exists so people can help each other. I think the @crane operator was being a bit sarcastic in his reply. Like I said I am no expert by any means. If you have automotive knowledge it helps but does not make you an expert in the repair of a backhoe. Yes reading the manual is important, reading good info here and other places is extremely helpful. Operating equipment is not brain surgery. However, it does take skill practice and experience. It also takes mistakes to learn. Some have done something for so long they forget that some people do not have their knowledge. So far here everyone has been very patient even when someone seems to ask a very basic question. If they are asking it is because it is not basic to them. Good luck OP in your search for a machine
Case 580M no electronics other than instrument panel.
Sadly, Case 580 Super N is not as simple. I bought mine used, looking to be in excellent condition. Within 24 hours I had numerous alarm codes. Back to the dealer for diagnosis. It has a bad sensor in the fuel tank, a bad water sensor in the fuel filter. The problem with it refusing to go into 1st gear seems corrected. It gives a time for oil change alarm despite having just been done. We haven't figured out how to reset that one. It alarms when the seat isn't latched forward or reverse, when I want to move a few feet without turning the seat around, when the normal act of moving, as I reach for the emergency brake switch, etc. etc. Worse than a nagging wife! Oh, parts backordered for months. This on a model still in production!
I've always been partial to Case because of the guys at the dealership. These guys are both a Case Construction, and Case/IH dealer so will look into the databases, (and books) to find a part called obsolete, or NLA on one side, to find what you need. They've come through several times for me in the past doing this. A good Deere parts person would do the same I'm sure.
Any good parts person period!! This is why I say find a good dealer near you. I had a problem with my New Holland. Messick's didn't even hesitate to call NH engineering, and get back to me ASAP with official NH bulletins...Yea, good parts people are worth their weight in gold!! On another note, Trope has not checked back in since his third post...did we scare him off???
There is only one Case industrial dealer in VT. Coincidentally, they share my last name. I once went in looking for a stock sort of a part. Making out the slip, the guy wanted to know how to spell my last name. I looked at him. Was this a failed attempt at a joke? I don't think it was. The New Hampshire dealer I've always dealt with 30 miles closer has lost the new sales portion of the business. They will continue as a parts & service only Case dealer. No Case part has ever been NLA, except where there are substitution part numbers. Substitute parts have always worked fine. Typically, it's a 48 hour wait to get new parts & many essential items are in stock. These people have been wonderful! & my newest until now was 1988 model. The back ordered parts are a simple back order.
You've obviously never tried to get parts for a 780C. I know when we got rid of it in 2007 parts for that Clark transmission were non-existent.
I love my Deere 310L, and the local dealer is decent for service. I realize that no one buys a hoe based on aethetics, but I like the way the 310L looks, is laid out, and designed physically.
Seems as though @crane operator has been looking through my post history! I went with New Holland and have so far been lucky to not need much. I don't know that I'll have a whole lot of luck finding local service. Swetz has been a big help but I'm sure there'll be a point where he expects me to pay him!
My friend is in a family business started in 1953. They have exclusively had Ford or New Holland backhoes. He pointed out the New Holland sloping hood lets you see the ground both sides of the loader bucket.
Everything is backordered. COVID and government reaction to same has trashed the manufacturing and distribution system.
You can't judge a brand by parts availability now. Grocery stores are struggling to get meat and other items. I don't drink soda or sports drinks but I noticed the aisle was nearly bare. There were a few bottles of Gatorade and some of those stupid "energy" drinks, that was it. I work for one of the largest auto manufacturers in the world. We can't get parts for anything it seems. Even motor oil is on backorder. Dealers are sending people to Walmart and other retailers just to have enough to keep servicing vehicles.
It’s like America is now a third world s-hole. But it’s ok. It’s a very small price to pay for no more icky tweets.
LOL!!!
This is one of the most beautiful things I've ever read on the internet. So simple, to the point, and lovely.
....supply and DEMAND.... There used to be such a thing as a warehouse.... but "we" found a cheaper way and that was to get it delivered ( overnight) as you needed it. From car parts for the assembly line to pet food. And all that works well..... but along comes the specter of a nasty 'bug'.... and we have always been dealing with nasty bugs thru history.... thankfully they don't come round too often ( that timescale is probably getting less). And we decide to shut down and hunker..... and that throws quite a big wrench into a now global economy and that 'on time' delivery of things. What most don't realize is how close we came ( are) to an overload of the health system. Talk to front liners and see... people could very easily be scrambling for oxygen tanks/ ICU beds... ( think India). As we climb out of this..... a never before jolt to our economic system.... things should improve on the supply side. What remains to be seen is if the accompanying price spikes ( supply/ demand...) will ever retreat. Amen on the tweating thing.... tho I don't get them on my flip for some reason?? must be a dumb phone ... or a dumb operator
Part of the supply issue is getting stuff off the boats. The ports are stacked with containers that are waiting to be hauled out to make room for new ones being unloaded. The issue is not so much that the longshoreman are holding things up but rather there is no place to stack more containers. CA requires truckers to be vaccinated to access the port. From what I read about 35% of truckers are vaccinated. On top of that CA requires the trucks entering meet the latest CARB emissions standards. That is approx. 50% of the truck fleet in the US. Railroad moves containers too but they were already near capacity before this. The problem is easily solved. Make the stuff here!!! The next time China releases a biological attack on the world it will not be so pretty.
edgephoto, the issue is not with " the next time China releases a biological attack" the question people need to ask is why are these things happening to us? All things happen because God is over all things both good and bad, Scripture backs this up. He says things will go well if you follow his commandments. All the bad stuff we go through are because we are not following His ways. Society is rotten to the core....bottom off the barrel so to speak. We only learn by suffering the consequences of our actions. The Lord has designed the whole thing so we learn that He is the only one to look too. We do everything which is " right in our own eyes....In our own strength ". We don't recognize the Lord Jesus Christ in our lives. Only He can give this us to believe. Not something we can do. Not trying to sound religious here. Don't listen to the religious crap that you hear in the church's. It's all ********. I'm talking reality.
Sounds a bit crass but relates @James Sorochan , I walked into a conversation, this morning at work, from 2 ladies that were talking about some reality star selling jars of flatulence. If that doesn't speak, pretty directly, to what you are saying I don't know what does. I didn't realize society could turn so many wrong directions, and I'm an optimist!
Yes airhead. That's a perfect example of the state of things everywhere. You can see things falling apart in every direction...socially, spiritually, economically, physically, educationally, politically. It all has to come down.........not sure how much further down but whatever is needed will happen fore sure. The Lord doesn't make mistakes in His plan for us.
Hahaha! I'm surprised I haven't heard that one before.
...... didn't mean to stir that pot.... but there's quite a few FINE folks 'round here for sure.... so... "to the core" ???
In the old testament yes, but doesn't the book of Job and what Jesus said contradict your statement?
Wow this thread has gone way off topic!
A little, maybe.
Well...... since we haven't heard from the OP..... we're allowed to wander....
The CEO of Toyota mentioned that the parts to build a car at their US factory show up exactly 23 minutes before the line needs them. Not one second earlier or later.
I have this feeling this was a Wuhan lab mess up, and the US was involved. Therefore, it’s going to be forgotten.
I’m selling pure Deere 310 L exhaust for home and shop atmospheric adjustment. Make every get together resemble a construction site.
How much, I may be in for a couple units....wait, is that dirty exhaust or clean exhaust...LOL
Keif. Can you elaborate for me. I'm not sure what you are saying on the book of Job and what Jesus said?
T-town. I'm not trying to point fingers at anyone here. I really appreciate everyone's efforts to help and improve in the equipment we all have to do with. To be clear when I say things are going down the tubes it is because of our selfish nature; sin. Call it what you will, the result is the same. If we, and I'm including myself here, looked to the Lord and do His will, things will go well for all of us." The proof is in the pudding". Things are not going well at all when one looks around and pays attention. I'm not trying to change anyones minds here. Not up to me.
No wonder why I can’t find oil at Walmart. The dealerships are buying it all up.
Like the Blues Brothers, I have both kinds. DEF and non-Def.
Do you guys in the US have to pay for your covid vaccinations? We here in the UK get everything for free on the National Health Service and people still moan like hell. We dont manufacture much in the UK anymore, most is imported crap from the far east, our Government have legislated most heavy industry out of business. We have had long lead times for most construction materials, some costs have risen by up to 53% greed most of it.
Health insurance pays for the vaccine for those that want it. We don't make much here anymore either. Between the EPA and labor unions most business was driven overseas.
Sadly this thread is going about as for off-topic as one can go. It should be closed. I am done with it.
Edgephoto, thanks for your reply, just interested in how things are in the US
Gee, I have a great health insurance policy. There has never been any mention of payment. I believe near 100% of this pandemic, at least vaccinations have been paid by the taxpayers. There are countless health professionals hired to give vaccinations at every venue imaginable. I got 1 & 2 at Holiday Inn, the booster was administered in the vacant parking lot of a defunct mall. A corporation sprung up with a bunch of trailers & tents to vaccinate.
@Willie B I think the insurance companies were forced to pay if billed but yes I think taxpayers are footing the bill for this.
I figure 710 is best in Texas where everything is big. You need 1/2 acre to turn it around. I had a 410, later a 410C, both too long for my trailer. Present Case 580 Super N is heavier than both, but 3 feet shorter on a trailer. It is also 25 horsepower more & immensely more hydraulic power. I load the front bucket to stabilize the backhoe, rarely did that with a John Deere.