Im going to make this my dedicated restoration thread in hopes that it may help someone. My machine started as a $1400 craigslist special. Upon the guy first starting the machine and pushing on the ground with the bucket to lift the machine; it promptly blew a hydraulic line; not exactly what you want to see on a first time purchase. Got her home and proceeded to dangerously unload it from the trailer. The reason I say dangerously is because when you press on the brake, the bands are not adjusted the same, it grabs the right track first and then the left... in short; I went down the ramps straight, then I turned 45º and fell off the trailer. Thankfully nothing was hurt. This rebuild will consist of: Complete In-frame rebuild (pistons, rings, liners, rod bearings, all upper and lower gaskets) new injectors injector pump re-seal (it sprays fuel from the throttle lever) rebuild all 6 hydraulic cylinders new radiator new radiator hoses new water pump new transmission cooler (the old radiator was destroyed and they already ran remotes for a -8AN radiator) new fan belt new gauges new hour meter new injector pump kill switch (cable) replace rear drive oil (GL-1) LED lights all around possibly a new alternator, we will see if it works after the rebuild new hydraulic hoses everywhere figure out why its still not going into 1st gear After everything is buttoned up and the way I want, its getting a complete strip and re-paint with new decals. I think ill also cut the remaining 3 teeth off the bucket and weld on a planing bar on the bucket since im going to use it for building a road and clearing brush (which I probably need teeth for)
Nice find! I replaced almost every hose on my 450B when I first got it.
Ive never actually seen a line blow until then. I was covered in oil, however the original owner was shot in the face. Thankfully this stuff didnt burn my eyes a bit, I was surprised.
That's a nice find and a good little project, should work out well.
WOW.. 1400.00 !! what a find.. and running.!!! In case you missed the backhoe rebuild threads going on now.. Dale at Tractor Stuff seems to be the GO TO GUY for parts and REAL GOOD information.. Good luck w/ your rebuild and keep the pictures coming.. TPG
Will do, thanks for the contact. Hopefully the service manual I bought will bail me out in time of need. But first hand experience is worth it's weight in gold.
Parts have all rolled in, total cost so far is about $1000. not so bad IMO. There is going to have to be some creativity involved fitting the aftermarket radiator and transmission cooler. I sourced an old original 350 owners manual and hobbs hour meter to replace the busted one. I also bought a handfull of 48W LED's however once they arrived, I checked their actual power and its only 21.6W @ 100% efficient. Needless to say, I have opened a case against them. Worst part about this is I have to work 7 days a week for the next few weeks... no time to tear it down.
I bought the service manual for my loader, thankfully I believe its searchable, and its all indexed. Here it is if anyone needs it. https://www.mediafire.com/?j5ykdkp42ve4qpm
figured since I was using new old stock gauges, might as well find a cool oil gauge to match. Found this from some aircraft salvage site, still works!
Finally got some room to breathe from work and decided to break into the loader. I drove it up close to my container (shop) and started by chaining the loader up to the ROP. After getting all the big stuff out of the way, I noticed there was a little bit of milkshake on the valves, AND the bolt behind the water pump was GONE, therefore someone has very likely rebuild this engine at one point. I got the exhaust manifold off without removing the injector lines by pulling the rear stud out and hinging it up and out. The only reason I did this was because I thought I heard a cylinder missing when it ran. Fired it up without the manifold and cylinder 1 was hissing and shooting raw fuel. I diagnosed a burnt valve... however with it being an N/A diesel, this was highly unlikely. Turns out it was. Ordered a valve kit, hoping the seat isn't ruined. Has anyone ever seen this failure on an NA diesel?
That looks like more of a chip out of the valve than a burnt valve. Should be a fun project. I'm doing the same thing to and IH 500E dozer. I have it all done but the undercarriage.
A buddy of mine (professional diesel tech) suggested maybe the valve guides were worn to death and snowballed into an unseated valve. Good luck on your project! old iron is always fun to work on. I ruined the coolant temp sensor, ordered some new gauges, should be a interesting week. Will post when everything arrives.
Finally got a minute to do a little work on it. Pulled the skid plate (heavier than I thought) pulled the pan, un capped the rods and pushed everything out. Thankfully the crank is in MINT condition, the bearings were also in fair shape, very little play and no real damage to be seen. #1 had a cracked compression ring, but that was it. Gonna drop the head off at the machine shop tomorrow to have them replace the valve guides and lap the valves in.
Keep posting pictures........ I love to see pictures...lol
lol, I actually try to moderate my picture taking. Ill take more.
Since I didn't get a chance to machine a liner puller today, I decided to tackle the lack of 1st gear. I had to wiggle under the loader frame on some plywood to get to the bottom bolts (4 total) then holding the right steer handle, blink twice, pray to allah while throwing snake oil over your right shoulder; the assembly came out. woo! Of course the shift fork was very SLIGHTLY rusted to the shaft which kept it bound. -_- whanged it with a hammer, cleaned the shaft up with a file and went to reassemble. I learned something today.... there is a special place in hell for the person who designed this transmission.... I tried probably 20 different times and 20 different ways to stab the shifter assembly back into its hole... then I had to fight with the bolt behind the shifter housing since theres barely room for 1 finger. Thankfully its together and shifts into all its gears. In hindsight; if I had removed the 1" hydraulic line feeding the block, it might had been easier.
The working area for this wasn't the easiest. Better limber up if you have to take on this job. (pic of the transmission) 1st gear is on the left, 2nd and 3rd are on the right.
you need to gift yourself a pressure washer and clean that ol girl up before tearing it apart, makes it much easier and cleaner in the long run..looking good so far..
While I agree with you 110% I don't have water at my shop. However you better believe when I get this thing running, I'm talking it to the car wash with $50 in quarters. There's literally 3" of grease and dirt in the skid plate. However, all the metal has been protected from rust
you can fill 55 gallon drums with water or a bigger tank and just use a small electric utility pump or even gravity feed it( if you lift the drums or tank above the pressure washer) into a pressure washer to use...I think the car wash might object to that..LOL....nothing like 3 inches of grease to stop rust...but you end up wearing much of it as you work under her...seeing whats going on is half the battle..all those clumps of dirt and grease hinder working and taking apart, the less that gets into the internals the better..1 piece of grit in the hydraulic system can be a real *&%#@%& ...
While I have one of those big square totes, I feel its my environmental duty to not wash a bunch of grease into the water table. Ill be washing it at night to avoid problems lol.
lmao..........
Got to pull some sleeves out last night. Turned out not to be as easy as I had seen it done on youtube. I machined out a liner puller... mandrel? And a stationary block up top to attach all thread through and crank the nut till it popped. Unfortunately it was my jig that buckled and popped the welds loose.
Determined to not have the whole night wasted... I went with the "i need a bigger hammer approach" and made a 21lb 2 handed slide hammer out of some scrap that was lying around. I didnt bother with cylinder 1 and went straight to #2, 15-20 hard pulls popped it out. Then I called it a day. I just went over there and sprayed everything down with PB blaster penetrating catalyst; put the hammer on #1 and pulled it out in 5 hits. I transferred the hammer to #3 and snapped the all thread... time to upgrade from 1/2 to 5/8.
You've definitely got the right idea, but is that aluminium? You will need to make it out of steel. And probably step up from 1/2" to 5/8 or 3/4 threaded rod. Edit. I posted this while you were putting up your second post. Good to see you got them out.
yeah, aluminum is pretty strong, Example: I had a nut the same thickness as the aluminum mandrel on the bottom, the nut and rod gave out (30,000psi) and the aluminum is good as new. Probably because I form tapped it "hardened" Just uploaded a video of it, its in 4k, but may take a while to be available in full quality. https://youtu.be/W2-exVvzikc
wow, are those dry liners? Mine are wet liners and popped out easily with a block of wood and hammer from the bottom. On the bad cylinder the liner actually came out with the piston/rod. My Massey tractor has dry liners and we cut the liner partially thru from top to bottom on opposite sides with a hacksaw blade and they broke out easily.
They are wet, problem is I don't think anyone ever used coolant, and the block is rusted to death
Oh, I see. Thought that is the same motor as mine. Mine went together nicely and has been about a year now with no problems with the engine.
It's a case 188d engine, as long as I can get the injector pump cleaned up, block de-scaled and reassemble, it should be good for a long time. Lots to do still.
can you pull the block and have it boiled?
Too much work for what it's worth.
Dear baby jesus, finally got the liners pulled. Gotta clean the block, possibly paint the inside? Clean up all the seal surfaces, blow out the crank, and make for DAMN sure there's no rust on the bearing surfaces when I push it all back together. I pulled the injector pump to be cleaned and re-sealed (since it literally has a ****** of fuel shooting out of the throttle lever) I read through my manual; and it says that you should be able to just pull it from the block.... heh, yeah..... right. I had to use 2 flatheads prying to get it loose. https://youtu.be/K4blEiqsQbs the ****** in the above sentence is the word str3am.... somehow its censored?
Great progress! Definitely need to get the block cleaned good where the liner o rings contact so they don't get damaged. On my 450B the whole nose shroud with the radiator, oil cooler etc tilted forward giving lots of access to the front of the engine. At that point there isn't much to getting the block out of there ....
I had about an hour of free time today, since it was chilly (59F) I closed the doors on my container and turned on a small heater... I realize this sounds bizarre, but I was in a t-shirt and standing still. Popped the top off my injector pump and couldn't for the life of me figure out how to pull the throttle and fuel shut-off levers.... I think Im going to out-source the pump for safety. However after poking around on the interwebz, I figured it out... gonna take a stab at it tomorrow. I cleaned the top of the block and vacuumed out all the rust only to find the top 3 webs between the cylinders are cracked. Other posts on this forum seem to have the same issue. Im going to look into this further to make sure the base of the block isn't cracked as well. Does anyone know how to separate the water pump from the pulley? I hit it in all directions with an air hammer... nothing budged.
also forgot to mention, I cover the engine with a trash bag and random metal plates to keep it in place in case it rains... I found a full un opened champagne bottle in cylinder 1 today... somebody is trolling me. After its all together, new gauges and running... ill break it over the bucket.
On the injection pump.. pull the black clips on the throttle/shut off shaft and pull the shafts apart.. 2 separate pieces. If you send me your email addr. I'll send you a pump breakdown w/ p#'s.. send it to my personal addr... just put an.. a o l . c o m after my handle..
Ill try that this evening if I get a chance. I went and had a look in the daytime, the base of the block isn't cracked. Full steam ahead!
I would pull that block have it boiled and then magna fluxed for cracks,you cant see all the cracks with the naked eye... your dumping a bunch of money into this, you may as well make sure the block is in good shape and if not replace..... so all that time and money on an engine rebuild doesnt goto waste...
while a normal sane person would do that, im going to opt out and just rebuild it; pretending everything is A-OK lol. It worked, had good oil when taken apart, had anything else been wrong, I would pull it and replace the whole block.
thats the issue now, you dont really know what else may be cracked or wrong, just because it ran doesnt mean it wasnt going to go boom soon after..just my .02 cents...it would be a darn shame to rebuild and then shortly after have the block fail...
Iv'e done all the inspecting I want to do, I poked around looking for a block, best I could find was a complete engine. If something is wrong with the engine, its already too late to abort; the rebuild kit has been purchased. But to be honest, all the bearings and surfaces are in good shape. I dont see anything coming up in the foreseeable future.
Have at it... you already know what the worst case scenario is.
Throw it away and start over. Seems fair.
LOL, those are stout little engines. Would be a good idea to use new rod bolts, if not then locktite them good......they like to loosen and fall off on that motor throwing the rod thru the block....
Red locktite on order. Thanks! It was a ** to get them loose, literally had to use an impact. After all, diesels are notoriously smooth and quiet.
I came to the conclusion that im not goint to weld on new teeth to the bucket, instead I plan to band everything back in shape, reinforce it where needed and install a rezloh edge. I would like teeth for digging, however, I REALLY bought this machine to make a road... seems like the best of both worlds.
More parts rolling in. Im planning on machining out a small switch panel with text and using these latching back-lit buttons. And somehow this OEM-ish temp gauge took like 2 weeks to get here.
Im working on cleaning up the mating surfaces, have any of you guys done this? Mine has some rust, how did you get rid of it?
usually some sand paper, a wire brush and some elbow grease worked well. If I could get a flap wheel into it or the sanding disc on a grinder that really helped.
I'll try that tomorrow. Thanks! I considered a ball hone but really don't want to risk changing the dimensions in any way.
So did you find out if your LED lights were rated by the pair? if they are the 2x6 lights they should be plenty bright but they send the light in a 180 degree sphere. decent cheap flood lights. I like the latching switches.
I found out the chinese are good a the old bait and switch tactic. They were 61W per piece, but barely came up to.. 47? No big deal, they refunded me a portion and I was on my way. The small pods I got that were supposed to be 47? that were 21, they also refunded me over half of my money back and said keep them. So even though they are under the power I wanted, at that price, ill use them for now. I have seen LED's especially for headlights are rated as a pair when it comes to wattage. I went by the machine shop yesterday to check on the head, should be ready by friday. I looked at the valve and it appeared it just broke and that was it, no damage to the valve seat. woo hoo.
Worked on it a bit tonight. Got the water pump apart with a ton of heat and air hammer, cleaned the bore and scraped gaskets. Went to install the bearings in the rods and they are too short gonna call them tomorrow. I need 1.125 wide bearings, they sent 1" ones.
Sorry for not updating pics, I do most of my work from my phone, and if any of you have ever tried to use the upload function.... its VERY clunky at best. Does anyone have any idea how this oil pickup tube keeps from sucking air when its running? There is no seal, its just slips in and is held with a cotter pin.
I've see that oil setup before. My guess is that its not running in air but rather an oil spray environment that seals it enough. Though, I wouldn't object to a little dab of sealer on the cotter pin ends to keep it from vibrating and wearing out
I think I might put a piece of waterproof heatshrink over the connector, pin it and shrink it, that will provide a good seal for years to come... assuming the oil doesn't break down the tubing.
Its close now! Finally managed to assemble to connecting rods, matched bearings, torqued the rod caps (with red loctite) to 45 then 50ft/lbs. Hammered the sleeves in with a 4x4 and trailer hitch "my sledge hammer walked off". Cleaned the head and block really good and bolted it down. One thing I did notice is when I put some insta-gasket on the water pump housing gasket to hold it in place, I couldn't get the head in flat down on the block without smashing the pump housing gasket.... so I left it out and made one with just insta-gasket. Fingers crossed it doesn't leak. One thing I thought of after the head was on is... I wonder if the piston rings are clocked 120 degrees apart? I never pulled them from the sleeve since I don't have a ring compressor that big. Ill call the supplier tomorrow and ask. Another thing I need to ask is why the hell are the bearings they supplied starting to form rust?
did you plasti guage all the bearings to check clearance?
I read about that in the service manual, however after measuring both sets of bearings, I didn't bother since they were all identical.
How did the leaking inj. pump repair go?? It looks like your missing a screw on the top cover, in the right hand corner, closest to the engine?? IF its broken, you better fix it while you have the room.!! IT WILL LEAK.. FOR SURE..no doubt about it.. then your gonna be pi--ed.. Just a little heads-up.. take it for what its worth.. It looks like your truckin' right along.. I hope it works out for ya..
heres a pic of the 350B I went through last year overhauled the motor went through the rear end reworked all the other systems if you have any questions let me know, Im sure alot crosses on them.
Well, I got it sealed, and yes that bolt was broken when I got it. The included gasket had quite a bit of extra... meterial? Plenty of spring, I dont expect it to leak, however, if it does, its fairly easy to get to. This machine doesn't have a lift pump, should it? To prevent cavitation? I know thats what usually kills P7100's and the newer 24valve cummins. Awesome! It looks good! Hoping mine will be similar... lots of rust tho. and grease! oh the grease, there soooo much. Here's a good question for ya, where would I get the little round bushings that dampen the "lovejoy" looking thing that connects the hydraulic pump to the crank? Mine are extruded out and pretty much no longer there.
You can find those bushings From aftermarket vendors On e bay. Looks great so far. Tom
IT RUNS! wooo! Ive got about 15 minutes of video starting and walking around, problem is its 6GB and itll take forever to upload, ill post links when its done. I need to hack the exhaust off and prepare it to be fixed, clean up the valve cover and wash it. After that it needs paint, wiring and electrical. An interesting problem I ran into is when I went to fill the sump, I only have synthetic rotella... you need regular dyno oil for break in. I got REALLY lucky the previous owner left a ton of stuff in one of the workshop barns and I found 2.5 gallons of BRAND NEW rotella 15W30 circa 2008. I work at a ranch as a machinist in a small shop, the owner operates a cat rescue shelter and this one cat the we brought back from NC 4 or so years ago decided to make the trek across the 100 acres and hang out while I finished up the dozer this evening. Yes, its a cat ranch lol
so now you have a CAT with that case..............LOL... looking good,,,,,
http://www.brokentractor.com/case_industrial_parts_dozer_case_dozer_hydraulic_pump.asp I get just about everything off this site, very good prices, especially seal kits
Primed the oil system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUGK9aeKm10 Bleeding injectors and first start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DexQV8uB23E Second start with exhaust system on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-EBky3qu4s
The fuel inlet pressure at full load is 1-3 psi.. Gravity.. no need for a lift pump, but its your call. The idle speed adjustment is with the stop screw on the throttle lever.. Glad she's runnin'..
Hmm, looks like I need to clean some filters and check the lines, because it took some effort to get the fuel to the pump.
On initial start up, after the fuel system has been open, it does take a few minutes to fill the filters and purge the air.. longer than one would think it should. BUT once its full, there is no other action required. Just make sure the petcock/shut-off is fully open on the tank.. It looks like you got a good handle on things.
All is well for now, gotta adjust the brakes and take her to the car wash. After hours of course
Went ahead and pulled the trigger on a rezloh edge. Hope its as good as I think it is.
I have NO seat in this thing, I could easily goto tractor supply and buy a seat... however, has anyone seen any good ideas for seats? I came across a 350 with a car seat in it. Looked comfortable, but pretty redneck lol. Looks like pushing the brake would be a bit weird.
My 450 and 1150 have separate bottoms and backs, should be pretty easy to make. They are wider than a regular seat. Arm rests are separate from the seat and bolted to sides.
Is it very comfortable? piece of plywood, some foam and staples is no problem. Maybe ill splurge and make it out of tempurpedic lol
yes, they work fine,they are pretty thick. I did buy the arm rests but they are pretty simple also.
That would be my suggestion also. Plywood, foam, covering, staples. The bottom did use springs originally but foam would work. Unless you want to get creative from cutting a section of springs From a junkyard seat find. Tom
Worked on the dozer a bit last night. I started it up and noticed a ****** of oil coming from the trans cooler lines. Pulled them off to be re-built today. Also put the radiator in its final spot and cut some hoses to fit. Not too much going on. I went over to this scrapped scissor lift in attempts to find a hose that may work. Unfortunately its all 3/8; however I did find some push-lock hose and fittings and decided to pickup a few of those to plumb the trans cooler since itll never see over 300psi. (rated) While I was out yesterday, I swung by the cat store and picked up a can of paint hoping it would match... it doesn't, not even close.
Yeah, they changed colors awhile ago.. looks like you got "new cat yellow".. that's how its marked on my cans.. If you wanna get fancy.. go to some of the Case rebuild threads on this site.. they mix their own and will give up the mixture if asked.. nice guys.
I may do that, I came across some rustoleum old cat yellow, looked pretty dark.
Tractor supply has a good old Cat colored paint.
Case yellow, is and always has been it's own shade of yellow. Try a case dealer. Tom
Ill call tomorrow, closest dealer is about 30 miles away. Ended up getting the radiator mounted and hoses cut. I was going to mount the trans cooler however I ran out of time, and managed to buy the wrong fittings yesterday. I picked up the right stuff for this evening. Ill probably machine out some delrin bushing for the hydraulic pump just to get it moving, so later on ill replace the coupler when it comes in.
I haven't tried this but their Massey Ferguson paint is right on... http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/majic-tractor-truck-implement-spray-enamel-11-oz-case-power-yellow?cm_vc=-10005
ooh, ive heard some mixed opinions on cheap TC paint, however I dont really see myself going to dupont and having some REALLY nice paint mixed up. Ill give er a try. Ill pick up a can this evening at lunch. ALSO, im machining some hydraulic pump coupler bushings if anyone wants some, ill cut some extras. Material is delrin. Since I just ordered my coupler, and it wont be here til next week, I decided to try making my own.
Forgot about that paint. Should work well for you and a lot cheaper. I have not had any problems with TSC paint. Tom
Wonder how the vibration will be.
Last night I had to work pretty late so my time with the loader was limited, however I managed to weld up a heavy bracket to hold the trans cooler and weld it in place with removable bolts to get everything out. Also, the rezloh edge showed up. Unfortunately its an inch short overall, however I got it for a deal.
Got half the day off and finally got it somewhat finished up: Mounted the radiator, mounted the trans cooler, cut and assembled new hoses, installed the upgraded hydraulic pump coupler, adjusted the left brake band so the foot brake is more even, machined down the mounting ear on the new alternator so that it fits, new fan belt, welded up the exhaust a little so that it doesn't rattle and finally filled it with some coolant which is where things started going down hill. After topping it off I noticed the hose between the timing case and the pump housing was leaking... no big deal, the worst part was when I noticed the block had a big(ish) crack near the fuel filter housing. My heart dropped..... thankfully im all out of Fu#*s and ill just braze it tomorrow lol. I did get a chance to drive it around the property before noticing the return lines on the injectors were spewing fuel everywhere. Fixed that and it quit running, so I reversed what I fixed and it ran fine? Looks like I need to investigate the return line being clogged. Other than that, the transmission was pretty weak, probably low on fluid. When I had the cooler taken off, I touched the fluid coming out and had a smell... it was gear oil. A full fluid flush is in order. If anyone ever has to make some 300psi or lower lines, use push lock lines and fittings, they are magical.
You did ALL THAT in 1/2 day.?? I'd be checkin my IN BOX for job offers. LOL Nice work.. Don't forget to blow out the check ball return connector on the top cover of the inj. pump. Its a 1 way connector so you'll have to take it off the pump to blow/clean it out.. Good luck..
When I was in there it looked like just a fitting, nothing was in it, just a through hole. However I did take the return like loose, put 160psi through it and blew a bunch of garbage out of it. I also replaced the hose that connects the timing case to the pump housing WITHOUT taking them apart.... Ill post pics tomorrow, I'm lying in bed seeing double, it's DEFINITELY time for sleep.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, especially given how far you've come but.. If the return line is full of garbage, the only place for it to come from is the injection pump.. YOUR CORRECT, THE 42aj DOES NOT HAVE a checkball return connector.. In my mind, that leaves all the broken flex ring material, going back to the tank thru the return line.. Just search, broken flex ring, and you'll see what I'm talkin about..
When I was in the pump it only had rust, that's it, no. Broken bits of plastic. To be honest I think it was rust. But it runs, a new pump would still keep me under budget.
You'll know soon enough.. when the engine rpms start to fluctuate and you cant control the speed of the engine.. you better shut her down QUICK.!!!
Nothing like a good runaway on a rebuilt engine lol
Got the block cleaned up, drilled the crack and notched it. not looking forward to brazing this -_- How I changed the tiny radiator hose between the timing case and pump housing: Cut the old one off with a knife and removed the hose clamps using a cutoff wheel, cut off the top of the timing case to make a small bevel grease up the replacement hose and slide it down between the crack, once you have pushed as far as you can, rotate the hose 180° and it should pop the rest of the way through by using the notch as clearance.
that crack might have been a good candidate for pinning........is this the same block that internal cracks also?
I've seen pinning, takes forever. Yes it's the same block as before, about 80% of the rebuilds I've seen have had cracks between the liner bosses, didn't think much of it.
that block froze solid, thats where the crack in the water jacket came from, might not be the last crack you have to deal with...
I hope so. Gotta roll with the punches.
what are you gona braze it with or are you gona weld it up?
I planned on brazing it with some silicon bronze rod and an oxy-acetylene torch, however I might tig braze it using the same rod. I also considered using a nickle rod and just arc welding it, however that doesn't quite have the success rate I'm looking for. All else fails I'll just jb weld it.
I have had very good luck tig welding cast with 309 stainless rod, it has a little flex so it doesnt crack on cooling, with a big chunk of iron like an engine block you could weld it cold go an inch at a time and let cool down so the block never gets too hot to expand and then cool for any cracking issues..
Hmm. I have some stainless rods, I may do that. I saw a guy on YouTube use some stainless mig wire and he fixed a cast manifold. Ill try and see what alloy my rods are. Thanks!
if you have any old cast laying around crack it and try the ss rod on it to see how it works, then go for the block repair..
No cast here. Only cast I have is the case lol
The only rods I have are 316 rods... think this will work?
it should be fine any of the stainless rods on cast will have the same effect...just go slow , like an inch at a time and dont heat up the area , let it cool between each inch..just make sure the area is clean of any oil or antifreeze, wipe with acetone before welding, cleaner the better with tig..
How long do you suggest between welds?
wait till you can touch weld area with your bare hand, with that much volume of metal it shouldnt be that long between welds, you can start at both ends and meet in the middle, so weld an inch on the right and go right over to the left, then back to the right...DONT spray any water or use any wet towels to cool it down , just let the air do it..
I'm no expert but Ive heard you should hit the weld with a needle scaler before it cools
if your welding hot yes, it releases the tension in the weld to prevent cracking from thermal expansion, when keeping the piece your welding you dont have to, but if you wanted to it wouldnt hurt..
so, no pre heating, am I correct?
correct, no preheat, unless you take the block out and can preheat the whole piece and then control the cooling... use enough amps to tig weld the thickness of metal on the side of the block .....
I like easy. In fact, I may change my middle name to easy.... Hmm
easy money.....LOL.....
Lol. Nobody will believe me. My caller I.d. is already set to two small cats.
im still around, been working 8 days a week at work, will resume working on this as soon as I get some time off.
you left us hanging on that crack repair..LOL
I'm sorry! I really want to finish it, but between a motorcycle training course that I HAD to do this weekend, I have had no time after work.
Well, did a little work this evening. I didn't have any power at my container shop, so I had to rely on my headlamp. The goal was to fill the engine with water, prime the fuel system and limp it over to the main shop to TIG weld the crack closed. Problem is I mounted the fuel filter assembly over the crack, primed the fuel system and found out the holes I drilled are pouring out water faster than I can fill it. So I dismantled the fuel system, plugged the holes with some sheet metal screws, re primed the fuel system and filled the block with water. Drove it half a mile and drained the block to prevent rust and give it some time to dry before I weld it. The clatter of the tracks across an empty field at night made the whole thing worth it.
"The clatter of the tracks across an empty field at night made the whole thing worth it" is, to this lurker, sheer poetry and brought back many memories of late evenings 60 years ago on a 2-cylinder John Deere farm tractor. Neill Neill
Ha, glad I could help! I'll try and get some video when it's together enough to run more than 5 minutes.
MAN.. I'll bet seeing that water pouring out made you sick !!?? Especially seeing YOU did it.. I hate it, when that happens.. Good thing you have welding experience.. Keep the updates coming..
I did it? I only just recently became the proud owner of this thing lol. The previous 2,3,4,5 or so owners left plain water in it. Easy fix tho. On another note, this thing does NOT like to start when cold.... by cold, I mean 70 degrees outside. IT smokes white for a bit and eventually kicks over. Im not using the cold start coil, however it looks like Ill be needing it.
Well, you got her rolling and now where you can get her patched up! Glad you're moving forward. DB
I thought you said, you drilled the holes?? my mistake.. Yup, white smoke is 1 indicator that its getting fuel but the cyls are to cold to fire..
Yeah, I drilled the holes, but the crack was from the previous owner. I didn't expect it to pour out that fast.
I have a question regarding the brakes if anyone could answer it. When driving, I can't fully lock up the track to steer sharp. However it doesn't take much to get the brake to engage on that track, just not fully lock no matter how hard you pull. Why is this? And; I read to use gl-1 oil in the diff due to the brakes being a wet type system. Why is this? Why use this very specific oil? Friction modifiers like in an LSD? if so, why not use LSD oil instead of a hard to find specific? Thanks!
Sounds like someone might have put the wrong fluid in the diff, but with luck and a fresh fluid change, the brake operation will come back to normal
I hope so, I suppose ill see what the bands look like when I pop it open.
Well, I'm right in the middle of welding the block.... Some things I've done to prep: it was rusted from the rain we had earlier so I chucked a wire wheel into my air drill and let her have it, I followed up by chasing the holes with a drill bit to remove rust and I hosed it down with acetone and rubbed it clean with a paper towel. While the acetone was out, I cleaned my 316 stainless rods. Assuming there was still junk in the crack, I used the air gun and gave it a good blow.... One compared to the night before a wedding. I've taken a bunch of shots with a FLIR to show how fast the heat spreads..... Simply put; I'm amazed. Something I've noticed when welding is that it welds just like steel, until you put too much power into the weld, then it fizzles and nothing sticks.
Had a buddy look at the welder as my foot was adjusting the power, it appears I'm not going over about 75 amps at 12v. Basically you could weld this with a car battery and some current limiting lol.
well, its done, problem is there are some cracks through the welds, I let it cool for a bit and went through and welded over the cracks trying to seal it... problem is im sitting here on youtube and I heard a crack... I'm scared. someone hold me. Worst thing I have to do is mix up a batch of JB weld and call it a day lol.
So, how was the motorcycle training class? clean the crack as best you can, degrease, use a shop vac to pull a negative on the cooling system and let it suck the jb weld into the gap. works great on crank case cracks too
It was good, ive been riding for 10 years or so, finally got a ticket so figured now was better than never to get it taken care of. Good idea! JB weld is pretty thick, but even a little bit of penetration is better than none.
Momma didn't raise no failure... except maybe this one time. Welded about 1/2" at a time, low heat (75a) and let it cool to about 70 degrees F, I think I screwed it up when I finished and laid on a bunch of filler to reinforce the rib... got too hot and cooled too fast. Oh well, it just needs to hold water. JB weld it is.
you could have peened the welds before they cooled to relieve some stress so they wouldnt crack..
I considered that, ive got a de-scaler that might have worked, but I figured with all the nickle, and the brittle cast, I didnt want to risk knocking a hole in it.
here is the cold start.. if you consider 78 outside cold. It was 56? at the time of the video. https://youtu.be/f7HyR1yTQZU
used some of this stuff... I chose it because of its density... its not quite a putty, but not liquid like the normal 2 part JB weld... it only has a strength of 800psi. One thing I noticed after I got back to the shop is it says organic.... if I've learned anything; the more warnings with skull and crossbones equals a better product. Plus, this isn't a 2 part system... its just air dries. I'm very skeptical to say the least. Fingers crossed.
Things aren't looking good, its puffed up and doesn't look like its sticking. I put a small low power heater on it for now, hoping I don't have to grind it off tomorrow.
well you dont pound the crap out of the weld, just enough to dimple the weld...lol....I think you should clean that grey crap off and use jb weld and not have to worry down the line...anything good for the environment is garbage and doesnt work..LOL...
I use a regulator on the air hammer or needle gun to peen welds on more delicate parts. Turn the regulator until the thing just starts hammering, maybe 30psi. Greyson
Well, pressure tested at 10psi blew holes in the mix... I should have known. I made a small video as a review of the product. Currently uploading.
JB extreme heat review: https://youtu.be/BIE-GXloIfI
Your weld looks OK. Why not grind the crack just a little and re-weld it and not let it get too hot? The thing with peening is that it is supposed to be done when the weld is hot. If you're using a cold welding technique, peening might not be a good idea.
I figured with peening it would create more surface area for it to grab onto, and I did re-weld the area that had cracked limiting the heat and it cracked in other places.
good news... I believe the new patch held, I put a 750W heater on the area to keep it warm; and keep the dew off of it, 9 hours later its rock hard. In other news, I was at a friends shop and saw this big 4" inlet magnaflow muffler sitting in the mud and traded a case of beer for it; thinking its better than the straight pipe I have now. While searching around for other pipe, I came across some leftover 4.5" stainless material I used for making a hood stack on my volvo that will be perfect.
Its been 24 hours, pressure tested it and no leaks are visible. So I pulled the air off and let it sit for an hour, pulled the cap off to add coolant and it blew my hand against the frame! I couldn't be any happier. Poured a gallon of rotella 100% and added water. Drove it across the field with no leaks. Now to move on to degreasing it.
awesome!
Success! Excellent news. DB
Somewhat. There's a tiny spot where it's leaking coolant, gonna clean it up, sand and touch up that area.
there is a glass based sealer for blocks and head gaskets that works great, can't think of the name but I used it on my D7 to seal a head gasket leak a couple years ago and it hasn't leaked since. Friends of mine with heavy equipment swear by it, got it at auto parts store. Be sure to follow instructions, have to get all the antifreeze out for it to work, then you can put it back in after allowed time. Be sure to get enough for the larger system....
Irontite makes some good sealer and has a sealer used for race cars and stuff that is ceramic. http://www.irontite.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1
I'll look into it. I had heard about that awhile back working on a skid loader. Gonna try the jb weld patch, all else fails, I'll glass it.
Little update. The block patch is garbage... It's soft when warm and is full of holes, I'm going to try another epoxy. I finished the exhaust, took the machine to the car wash to get rid of all the grease and dirt from sitting outside for its entire life, and I've started on the electrical. More pics to come. Another note: when unloading. Be sure to have extra life insurance just in case.... I got the tracks just over center where it tips back and it's slid down the ramps crooked and scared the hell out of me.... If anyone is counting, that's twice now, once when I bought it and once when I went to wash it.
It looks like its early evening or morning in the pic.. good move.. The car wash's around me, would have thrown you out in a NY minute.. Lol One summer my friends and I went thru w/ a boat after a week of crabbing & shrimping.. it did not go over very well.. Same thing happened when I took my moto-x bike in for a bath.. I didn't even get the wand in my hand before the attendant threw me out.. That's when I bought a pressure washer.. wasn't worth the hassle and the trespass warning.. It sux about the patch job.. theres GOTTA BE something that'll work.?? Even PAYING a welder will be more cost effective than a new block..
Yeah, it was evening when I rolled up, plus it was thanksgiving day. Plus it was a self service, so the owner was likely nowhere to be found. The only thing it really said was no heavy mud; and I washed all that off when I got it. Im going to give this Loctite metal epoxy a try. I watched a video of a guy testing metal epoxy and it had the best results.
I did a bit more research and conversed with my boss about how to fix this; and he brought up a great point. Why not just use loctite brand RTV? We did an adhesion test with a bunch of materials a while back, it even stuck to delrin... NOTHING STICKS TO DELRIN! So Im going to cut out a backer plate to cover the patch of RTV just so it has a backer for the pressure to push against. All else fails, I found out CAT recommends a product called belzona super metal 1111; and based on the videos I've seen, its pretty awesome, however it comes with an expensive price tag of $100 for a 1kg batch. I found some other stuff they make thats fast set called 1211 E-metal for $70... if the RTV doesn't work, ill resort to that. You know they saying: you get what you pay for.
Hard to find Belzona but it's supposed to be good stuff. Devcon may have something too. Maybe a patch and the regular Irontite would be a good idea?
I'v used Belzona alot.. like anything else, if you don't mix it right it'll flake. When mixed properly you can drill and tap it.. Its pretty kool stuff.. when you mix it, it starts smoking.. It doesn't have a long shelf life once opened tho. Keep the plastic under the lid after opening to help preserve. The longer you let it sit, the harder it gets so keep that inmind. The outside will harden but the inside will be flakey.. just give it 2 days..
I have a beaver-tail trailer, too. I welded some 1/2" square bar at the break-over on the deck so the growsers have something to hold onto. Growsers on smooth steel can make for interesting times! Keep trailer on flat ground and idle off. I've heard others say that once your on the ramps, don't touch the steering. Hope you're able to get that coolant leak taken care of....I'm chasing one down but think it's a cast elbow that I can replace. DB
I welded flat bar over the 2x3 angle for loading a forklift, I'm now thinking I need to remove them. Funny thing is it made it up there just fine.
Im still here, been sick. I swung by tractor supply and picked up what I thought would match my paint... turns out its perfect! Its more orange than yellow. http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...y-enamel-11-oz-case-power-yellow?cm_vc=-10005
wow, 11/29 last update, its been a minute. https://youtu.be/-7KrT7HtNs8 Finished up the wiring, installed some lights, I was going to install these big LED lights on the front; however the anemic little brackets it came with has it shaking like it has parkinsons. Gauges are mostly all installed; I filled the trans with GL-1 80 weight mineral oil (labeled as ford transmission fluid at tractor supply) the brakes work REALLY good now. Now a question: My machine when driving wants to drive to the right, The track on the right is more slack than the left.... is that what is causing it? If so, how hard it is to remove a track link?
If there is still adjustment left, you can pump some grease in the hyd adjuster. If it is similar to the 450 Case, there will be a about a 1" NPT plug just behind the front idler, which upon removal you can just pump some grease in the fitting under the plug once removed. Take a picture of the front of the track frame where the front idler is so we can see just how much room to adjust out is left if you can. Likely the loose track is not the culprit for drifting to one side.
right track has about 3/4" remaining, and the left has about 1"
are the steering clutches in that wet or dry?
Wet, and they have the correct oil. (GL-1 80 weight Mineral oil)
Does it have the Hyd track adjusters as I described in my post?
Yes it does.
This thread relates to the trials & tribulations of changing the both track recoil springs on my old 941 Loader & when apart I took one link out of the chains on each side, even though there is not much mention if it. Changing out the springs was a real learning experience, but the 2nd one went much easier than the first side. HeavyEquipmentForums
very good info and pics, except mine has the hydraulic cylinder with a grease zerk.
Ill poke through my manual and see if it touches on track adjustment, like loosten front wheel bolts, pump, rinse and repeat. UPDATE: I looked through the book and it says to just pump grease into the cylinder and they will tighten. Seems easy enough, ill give it a try.
941 is hyd too & a spring behind it. Yours will be similar with the spring behind.
Hmm. I'll take some covers off and check. I put a grease gun on it, had to hold down on the hose pretty tight and give it a fast hard pump to break open the zerk. It only needed to move like a quarter inch to tighten the track. I was very surprised.
if it still pulls, could be a lazy steering clutch, since that machine has sat for a while...
But shouldnt it drive straight regardless of brake bands? Kinda like a vehicle with a poor alignment, pulls one way until corrected.
My JD755 loader doesn't use steering brakes and clutches but a loose track on one side definitely makes it pull to the side.
I was doing some research, seems everyone has their take on it, but I also found that as well. I tightened the track, I'll see what it'll do on the next drive
Took it for a short drive, no change. However I have noticed this very loud screech from the right track, gonna lift it up and run the track, try and see where this noise is coming from. Probably run it for a bit and look at it with FLIR
After walking the machine over to where my telehandler is to pick it up, I got a part of the track on the peak of the trail and it tried to roll my good track off; the track chain had rolled part of the way off the track rollers and was binding.... however when I checked it earlier, it was in spec, maybe ill do it again and double check. As I was saying, I was rolling over to the other side of the property and decided to investigate this loud screech. I put it in 1st, climbed out and hit the go lever. Come to find out, the left rear track roller is completely worn. Ill remove it tomorrow and see if I cant fix it before this weekend. Here is what I saw: https://youtu.be/sJQMnwgx90k
LOL..you will find many have different opinions, but that is good brainstorming to solve an issue, each person looks at the problem from a different angle.. I have a dozer and track loader and at any given time one side if the tracks can be looser than the other side and they track straight..usually something binding or acting like a brake will cause bad tracking...but there can be other issues to cause this too...its just a process of elimination...how sharp or fast does it track to one side? a slight movement over or it feels like your making a sharp turn?
Is no differential in the bevel gear system of a crawler, if it pulls to one side something is slipping or brake is dragging causing slippage. Rails of the same size even slightly different are not like dragging flat tires on a truck.
A little late to the party...I see you're investigating other causes Poor brakes, yes. Poor steering clutch, could drift. Imagine if your car had a separate clutch to drive each rear wheel and you "slipped" the clutch on one side.... Adjusted correctly, the clutch disengages from the track before the steering brake engages. Removing a track link usually isn't done unless track stretched (worn) to the point that the front idler is extended to the end of the rail... As mm55 said- there's a spring behind the hydraulic tensioner- broken coils might have tensioner max'd out (son had a TD7 with broken recoil spring). DB
But the machine has an open differential, no clutches. Steering is from the drums and brake bands.
Im hoping since the rear track roller is completely destroyed, the rear of the right track is lifting off the ground and not supplying as much pull as the left... as if there was a shorter track on the right... Im calling around to some local equipment yards trying to source a used one.
Found a guy that can get me a new one friday for $100, not sure if its the whole assembly, hopefully it is since im pretty sure the shaft is worn to death. Lifted the machine up, gonna pull it and see if I cant turn a bushing down on the lathe. I loosened the tensioning zerk and it pulled the track back like it was supposed to.... at least theres that lol. Lets say I cant get the roller, I might swap it for the middle one just to get it down the road for a few days.
Sorry, missed that it was open diff. Looks like you found the culprit with that roller. DB
I also found that 80% of the bolts that hold the rollers on.... are gone. And the 1 bolt holding the rear roller snapped... probably just going to weld it back on.
I need to be taken out 1: to dinner or 2: by a sniper Managed to pull the track off by hand (by myself) without losing any fingers. https://youtu.be/T4blPFStNgI Top roller is about to fall off, and I need 2 rollers for the right track, haven't even looked at the left. Im half tempted to impact the carriage assembly off and drill those bolts out, or at least get it in an angle that I can work on it; seeing as I cant even get to the inside bolts holding the track roller axle on.
Pulling the track frames is the only way to do the rollers. It lets you flip it over so you can work on it on top. Wasn't too bad to do on my Cat 931B but I had a skid steer to move the track frames.
I've got a gradall telehandler. It picked the whole dozer up lol. I took a close look and noticed its only bolted with 2 bolts to the rear hub housing and 3 bolts to the frame.... Seems easy enough.
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dont weld anything that was originally bolted on, you will shoot yourself down the road for the quick hack fix....you can weld nuts to the broken bolts and then get them out, it may take a few tries but it will work, even if the bolt is broken below the top edge...worse case you drill them and use an easy out or drill and retap them...spend the extra time now to do it right...
Son and I did this on his TD7- retainer on rear and 4 bolts front equalizer bar. Slid off on timbers (you've got it made with the telehandler). Rolled upside-down made it so much easier- he had to drill/torch out some sheared bolts. DB
I sourced bearings for the upper roller, it uses NTN part number 6207ZZC3 (bearing number is 6207) it measures 72MM OD, 35MM ID and 17mm wide and has a grainger part number 4ZXJ6 the track rollers are a NTN number 6307LLUC3 and measure 80mm OD, 35mm ID and 21mm wide with a grainger part number 1L020 https://www.grainger.com/product/4ZXJ6 https://www.grainger.com/product/1L020 I didnt get seals since the bearing is already sealed. I had to order them, will be in tomorrow. I plan on removing the track carriage tonight. One thing I noticed is the back 3 bolts that hold it to the final drive gearbox are missing? left side is all fine.
Welcome to the world of used heavy equipment! Doing a once-over of my Deere 450 once I got it home, found lame-o I'd bought it from had put a shorter, grade 5 bolt in the hole for tranny mount cause it had a sheared bolt! (Just rattled in the hole) Fortunately, broken bit backed out easy enough. Plenty of knowledgeable folks here to help you (they helped me lots!). DB
More like used anything from craigslist. You can only look something over so good, until you really spend some hours with it later on. Meh, still got a good deal, just need to keep my nose to the grindstone.
Pulled all the bolts out of the carriage only to find out its welded to the frame.... -_- And the plot thickens.
About damn time something went my way! For whoever wants to know whats going on with my dual hose impact, its a 3/4 drive and takes a TON of air. I dont have big air lines, but I have a big tank, easiest thing is to run dual air lines. ooh, forgot to mention, so I previously said something about the rear gearbox not having its 3x bolts holding the plate... thats because 1 of them is sheared off and the other 2 dont line up, as if somebody ran this down a hill and hit a tree with the right track. Ill get a pic if I can remember.
I've been where you are in a sense. Wait till about the middle of July when its hot to do these repairs. Its a fantastic way to loose weight. On a serious note I like the dual air lines and hope it comes together for you. I've been on sort of the same path myself.
Id rather be hot than cold lol, Ive got fans for days. Good luck on your weary travels of heavy machinery.
WOW! ive seen some broken things that I can still salvage.... but this takes it to a whole new level. Had I gotten the roller off last night, I could have ordered the new part and had it here tomorrow... One funny thing is this roller is different from the others. It has this huge plate on the sides. I read that it came with 2 different rollers; case and intertrac. Intertrac has the big outside steel shield and is oil filled with an integral mounting bracket. The case is sealed bearings with grease zerks and separate mounting brackets... This one is kind of a hybrid; no zerk, oil filled, separate mounting brackets, thick steel outer plate.
I bought a couple used sections of 1" air line with crowfoot couplings then made a shorter whip to the gun. They do use a ton of air but beat a cheater bar Keep posting pics. Good job, DB
You can do it! We're rootin' for ya!
Thanks!, traded a guy $200 for a brand new track roller. Didnt really want to lathe out a new axle for something thats already garbage and I dont have bearings for. I pulled the other roller and am in the process of replacing its bearings. All downhill from here.... sorta. One little helpful thing I could add to this is when I was taking the roller axle cap bolts off, one particular bolt was giving me ****; I was using a half inch impact-no extension- impact rated socket, I ran it forwards and backwards and it eventually came out. Hope this helps anyone. Edit: censored words? is this server in china?
https://youtu.be/aZd10Ka19fY I ended up drilling out the bolts. I got one perfect, the other drilled hole walked since it appears that they used different grade bolts. Ended up running out of fu#ks and tapped it sideways, made the roller hole a bit bigger and called it good. So it has 1 bolt per side. I realize this is not ideal, and if it gives me any crap, ill weld it. Rebuilt the other slack roller with the bearings I mentioned. It was a breeze; 2 blows with a hammer had it apart, a few more hits to knock the bearings and seals out. Hammered the new bearings in with ease, more hammering to push the shaft through and it was done. 10/10 would recommend. Problem is, I spent $90 on bearings from a place that over prices everything... a new aftermarket roller is $100 plus shipping. I would have spent another $10 to get it, problem is I wanted to finish this track BS this weekend. These bearings can be had for MUCH cheaper from ebay. Ive found them for $16.95 shipped. Im sure with a volume discount, you could rebuild all 10 rollers for about $200. I need to go by home depot for some 3/4" bolts to hold the hub gearbox to the main mounting plate. I looked closer into the problem, it appears that the nut unscrewed itself in the lower hole and the other 2 were broken off from probably a large impact. I wish I could talk to who ever used to own this..... soooo many questions. ON a side note, I greased all the rollers, it took 3 tubes of grease. My elbow hurts... and im not even old lol. Need to invest in an air grease gun. (notice the grease has endurium.... a made up mineral from a 1986 movie lol)
You're making great progress. For the roller with only two bolts: maybe weld over bad hole in frame and use roller as a guide to re-drill/tap holes? Just seems you've done a great job so far, be a shame to have it give you grief once you have it back together... DB
also, just found out the roller they sold me is a bit larger in diameter.... -_-
Its all back together! Only thing that I fixed was a squeeky roller... it still drives to the right -_- I had to put the track back on myself, so I employed the telehandler to hold the track up while I pushed it on with bars and a sledge. It wasn't easy, but took about a solid hour. I started by chaining the middle of the track to the lift, hoisted it up, pushed it over to the sprocket and lifted the track onto the teeth of the sprocket. I used a ratchet strap through the hole in the sprocket to hold the track; and keep it from falling off and starting over. Next I pulled on the track by hand to the front of the machine and lowered the track the rest of the way. I then hooked up a cheap ratchet strap to the bucket and lifted it up onto the front idler wheel. From there I used 2 large 1" square tubes and a sledge hammer to beat the track onto the idler. This is where I spent most of my time. After It was all on, I put my air jack between the carriage and the track; lifted it up and installed the track carrier roller. Picked the whole machine up and remove the logs I had holding it up. Let it down and pumped up the track tensioner. ALSO, on another note, I didnt use the old fan shroud because I figured that it didnt need it... well, pretty much ZERO air flows through the radiator. Ill probably remove it and put this small (but very powerful) motorcycle electric fan on there instead.
Nice work.. sorry it didn't solve the tracking problem tho.. ya got any other ideas?? BTW> what size is you shop?? and whats the size of that door?? Look on the brite side.. you got decent weather..
Funny you say nice weather, it was 81 and I had a freeze warning for this evening lol. It was 80ish when I took those pics, and it's 35 now. That door is 16ft wide, the building is 30x80ft and is about 20ft tall with radiant floor heating. I'll take a close look tomorrow on the track alignment. May have to use a come along to pull it straight and weld a bar.
Hate to make mention but those rails are no longer iffy, they are pretty well toast. They snake as bad or worse than my own unit's rails and they have a bad habit of rolling off when side pressured pretty hard. As to the side slipping, I would be looking hard at something inside the final drive. I looked up how Case did their final bevel and pinion set up, used bushings and sun gear/planetaries for differential drive. Something inside there has to be binding or laying down to cause side pressure to make it try to steer.
Sorry that didn't solve the tracking. My Deere manual talks about undercarriage issues as possible cause of not tracking straight. Maybe see if your manual describes how to align/measure track carriers...? DB
I'll poke around today and see if I can't figure it out.
Might be a good time to measure pitch and compare one side to the other. Badly worn tracks do not always wear evenly. If one side is worn more than the other it will turn towards the one with the least wear.
The right track is about half an inch further out than the left, which explains the pulling to the right. Now I need to figure out how to fix this -_-
switch tracks from right to left and see if it tracks the other direction..as long as there isnt any offset that might rub..
I've read in the past (likely on here) that track tension or even track length has no effect on tracking straight. As long as one track isn't super tight as to cause resistance to turning, the sprockets should still turn at the same speed. I think someone even said if one side had a link removed it should still track straight. Could be a slipping clutch or brake problem and not track related at all.
Have you put it into a pile to see what it will do? Are you trying to check it on perfectly flat ground? Any little variance bump etc may cause it to track off. I thought in an earlier post the differential was mentioned , any drag on the brakes or binding in the u/c? You could run it get a heat gun and look for hot spots any friction will generate heat. The rails look really worn from the pics , count the links on each side to see if they are the same.
Drove it around and nothing was hot, the actual carriage is physically bent out. Picture the front idler being positioned further out to the right. Its like on a vehicle: having the left tire track straight and the right tire turned a little bit to the right.... Looks like it needs to go about half an inch in.
Thats a common cause of not tracking. The dead axle system is probably tweaked. Easy to do if pushing the machine with another one. Or is the idler not shimmed properly. I would think if this was the case it would show up as rubbing hard on the roller flanges on one side.
Pin and bushing turn or new p&b.....sorry.
pin and bushing? --------------------------------------- Took some pics, and measured the carriage, the right side is only 1/8" from the left, so hardly anything. I recall the manual saying something about shims? These pics are of the front idler. Left side, right side
Measure outside to outside the track pads. At the rear and the front to see if its pigeon toed. I know nothing about these tractors , does there seem to be a way to adjust it if the front is spread open? Your pins and bushing are what the sprocket drives the chain on. Take a wrecking bar of flat iron digger and put between the pads and see how much wiggle room is there. When you had the rails and pads off they looked to have a decent amount of wear in them. The bottom pic in post 213 and top pic in 214 were the pad is angled sharply kind of indicates heavy wear. I'm sure you didn't want to hear that , nobody does. I did notice the way the roller frame bolts on , it looks like it would be impossible to get the distance wrong. If the tracks are that worn , they will do all kinds of weird things.
I might even consider straight edge to the truck frames where you can access a decent length. A piece of known straight angle iron, square steel even lumber that sights out straight could detect a bend in the frame. My Allis shims the front idler from side to side to achieve a true line, does not appear the same on your machine but must be addressed in the service manual.
I recall it saying something about shims... Problem is I don't see any... Maybe that's the problem lol
If 1 idler is pointed out or in can cause tracking issues. There's probably a dimension for idler toe in or toe out.
Plus I would think you should see uneven wear on the idler flanges... DB
I had a bent axle on my D7 front idler that caused tracking problems.....
Didnt see anything in the service manual for measuring its alignment, nor did I see anything on shims. Might have to fabricobble something to hold it straight.
While mocking up the mounting bolts for the edge I happened; to look straight down the right track and noticed its all straight... except for the front. So I took the cover (what I thought was the cover) off of the recoil spring which then abruptly slid the front idler backwards. I noticed you could rotate the front idler a little bit in each direction... my theory is that the hydraulic tensioner and recoil assembly were crooked from some sort of mishap, and since the idler carriage has no alignment guides in the back, its free to angle the wheel wherever it wants. I did notice that the left track has a new'er' spring assembly... and since half of the bolts are broken off on the right tensioner... it was allowed to pivot and push the wheel out of alignment. My fix for the track alignment: With the tensioner assembly taken apart, I pulled the wheel carriage perfectly straight (using calipers), I then welded a piece of 1/2" square bar (about 2" long) right next to the inside of the idler carriage to keep it straight while tensioning. Conclusion: after measuring, it appears that its a little over corrected by about 1/8, however it drives much straighter.... its not completely fixed. However its not NEARLY as annoying as it was before.
Now my new issue is why isnt my fan fanning? Ive been having this same issue with my telehandler. Its spinning, the blade is angled correctly, however it sucks air in from the back and blows it out the sides... literally NO air goes through the radiator. Ill probably just remove the mechanical fan and swap it for an electric one.
Post up some pics of the fan shroud. The fan shroud is the key to pushing air correctly. A friend had a heating issue and we noticed the fan shroud was gone. He fabricated one up and that fixed his problem.
The fan shroud wont fit, nor would it be worth making a new one compared to attaching a fan to the front... which is what I just did. Had one handy, just needed trimming to fit between the trans cooler and radiator. Since I dont have a thermostat installed, im going to install one that kicks the electric fan on when needed. I would also agree with you on the shroud being a key component however... a ceiling fan, or oscillating fan doesn't have one. And, my telehandler has one but suffers from the same issue... rad's are clean and its direct drive.
Curious as to why are you not running a t-stat? Engines will always run better and last longer if run at the correct tempurature. A ceiling fan pulls air from around it with little resistance and moves it back down. A radiator fan without a proper fitting shroud does the same thing. It pulls air from the side instead of pulling it thru the radiator. The old rule of the path of less resistance.
We gotta give ya a BIG "A" for effort tho.!!!! in 2 months you've been into the engine, fixed the block [several times] fixed the leaking injection pump, been into the trans, added coolers and radiators, and now the tracks and UC.. DAM.. Your workin on this thing, like your JOB depended on it.. Lol.. I know people who do that for A LIVING and don't work that hard.. Lol Your an inspiration. ALMOST makes me wanna get off the couch and do something.. Merry Christmas and keep up the fine work.. TPG
Thanks man, I'm trying. I left the thermostat out because I originally planned on having it free flow to flush the block, however o can control the temp both ways, either with a thermostat or temperature sensor. I already have the thermostat, so I might as well just install it. Plus I still need to repair the crack for the 3rd time.
The fan on my D7 is a "pusher" fan that pushes air forward thru the radiator to keep it from pulling all the dirt and dust into the radiator fins. haven't checked my Case loader to see if it pushes or pulls.....
Mine is a pusher as well,
In the not-so-old days, the pusher fan was used to stoke up the fire in a stump pile, as long as one knew when to back out!
Clever!
I bought an econo composite puller fan for wintertime running, not worried about dust but it sure keeps the floorboards defrosted.
Smart, I considered hooking up some hoses and a little heater for this winter.
I got the fan from Jegs, I think I had to modify the spacer just a bit as the bore on the water pump snout was larger than a car one, Only takes about 15 minutes to swap it over and when moving snow around your feet are toasty warm, the floorboards are warm and the transmission gets warm, it also helps deice the tracks a touch if you let it sit. Used to have problems with ice jamming up the parking brake dog and the foot controls. Jegs was the easiest source of a small enough fan and going the right direction.
Sounds easy enough. For now it'll just make noise and the electric fan will take control. Honestly not sure if I'll ever fix it to be oem.
Not much is going on with this project at the moment, I took it down to my buddies lower field to pull a truck out and this damn steering is KILLING ME! With it pulling to the right (even after I aligned the front idler etc) Im about ready to sell it... but the steering is literally the only problem thats a deal breaker. Would you think there could be something in the differential that would cause more power to be put to the right? Im thinking of propping up the front onto logs and lifting the back with the telehandler and let the tracks spin, see if one wants to go more than the other.
try swapping the entire track from one side to the other and see if it makes a difference..that is easier than tearing into the internals..
That sounds like a job!
Easier than trying to sell it to tire kickers who all say, this thing pulls.. Lol
lol true, when I was looking at where the carriage assembly mounts to the frame, it looks like there is a SMALL gap where someone welded it... it looks like a real whore to fix, but if grinding a bunch of weld off and replacing with bolts fixes this... im down.
how many times have you had the tracks off already it wouldnt take you long at all., I mean the tracks and chain, swap it all over..if it still pulls then you know its something inside, if it doesnt pull or pull the other way then you know the issue is with the track and chain..all its gona cost you is some time..
Ive had the right side off once, by myself (nobody here to help) except some chains, straps and a machine that can lift the entire dozer. Your right about the time, however, why would a track and chain cause pulling? I could see frozen pins binding, however ive driven it far enough to sort of break things loose. Im thinking if its not that terrible weld job someone did on the frame where it connects; there is a broken planet gear in the rear diff thats causing the power differential to not be 50/50
Sounds like you may be getting into something like I was wrestling with a few months back with broken/missing bolts underneath my old 941? HeavyEquipmentForums
Basically its exactly that, but instead of it being flush, there is about .125-.1875 gap and then they welded it...
We have to do that sometimes w/ injection pumps on twin engine boats.. Pump gets rebuilt and the engine still acts the same way.. You try to tell the customer that he has engine/turbo problems and the only other thing we can do to prove it to him is, swap the pumps from the other engine that's running fine.. lots of labor & $$.. but it definatly tells the story..
I would think if you had any damaged or broken gears you would have heard some grinding or have some metal in the fluids showing...if its not a horrible fix to grind the weld off and properly line up the parts , try that first, you spent plenty of time and $$ fixing it up, for a little more time and effort to get it going straight is worth it before giving up..
https://youtu.be/YwJsHJTUjhQ The torque tube is absolutely bent, its not the carriage. However the large plate that the carriage mounts to is also bent. I'm not about to hack that HUGE tube off, notch it and weld it all back together (3 days of work) So I opted for the "use a bigger hammer" method; in the form of a 28,000lb telehandler with a log for a buffer. I bound the front tracks together at an angle so that most of the force was on the tip of the bent track; with a come-a-long, chained the frame to a tree and hit the front of the track with the hammer. A few good hits did it, its driving MUCH straighter, but not perfect. Im going to weld a bar from the frame to the carriage to prevent losing my pre-load... and hopefully when I let the tension off the come-a-long, the other track will flex back out and everything will drive straight. Fingers crossed.
Had to reattach the skid plate before I did any conflicting welding. Got all the protective covers on, tensioned the track in place with the telehandler only to have it start raining. -_-
It's always something, huh? Glad it seems to be tracking straighter. On the brite side, you're getting an intimate look at your machine DB
well well well, its pretty much... almost finished. I dont want to say done, may jinx myself. Over the past 2 days, I finished installing the electric fan and relay/thermostat, bolted on all the covers and skid plates, straightened the right track and welded a pre-load support, installed new battery cable terminals, cut out a replacement right battery cover from some 6061 aluminum, built up a seat/back rest/ arm cushion from some foam and gator skin from hobby lobby, torched out the holes and installed the rezloh edge. Oh, forgot to mention, I also cut the exhaust off and angled it to a 45 and chopped the tip parallel to hopefully broadcast the noise away from me. I am in NO way good at upholstery, however I kinda know how to wrap a present... I combined the skills and what you can see is the end product lol. Upon noticing im almost out of fuel (even tho I filled up when I washed it) I glanced at the fuel shutoff and its leaking pretty bad. My luck, it was fine, now its not. Ill top off all the fluids tomorrow and im taking it to my property to finally put it to use. Wish me luck.
Lookin good..... I'll keep my fingers crossed for you...lol
Nice work. Next we wanna see pictures of her moving some dirt!! DB
Gator for the seat? First class!
Allot of work put into this machine can't wait to see it completed. Do you plan on painting it? I've been following the thread as I can but haven't read everything. The seat looks good very smooth, I would love to have a band saw like that Dake.
well, I got it out to my property and worked for about 45 minutes and it rolled the right track off..... I went and picked up a friends Kubota SVL90-2 track loader and finished up. Came back out sunday and put the track back on. I plan on selling this as soon as I clean it. This track rolling off was the last straw. It worked good before the track rolled lol. Im putting together a video of the day.
That is a problem warned of when saw the snakey chains. When they can twist sideways pin to bushing is when they can easily roll off.
so you think maybe a new chain would fix it?
On my 943 the chains were worn out. It finally got to the point they rode outside of the rollers more than in the rollers where they should be. Heavy rubbing marks were noticed on the outsides of the rollers. The chains had lots of snake like fashion once removes noticeable by taking a crow bar or wrecking bar and working between the pads , there was a lot of movement. I would not trash it yet with all the work you have done. Check out your chains and it looks like the track guides are missing as well.
The pic with the front off the ground , were the adjusters relieved? That is a lot of sag for sure.
Yes, the adjuster was fully retracted. What are track guides?
Track guides bolt to the bottom or the roller frame usually two by the front idler and two just forward of the rear sprocket. One inside and one outside. If yours are missing that could be part of the problem.
First thing to do is figure out why the track came off. Snaky tracks will definitely come off easier.
Not sure if you have operated a crawler much but worn tracks can be finessed a bit by using good operator techniques. For example turning when the track is supported on just the ends is real hard on them twisting and making it easy for them to start walking off the sagging middle. If you can, try to turn when the center of the track is supported as when on a little hump. You will notice how easily it turns, often without using the brake. There are better operators than me on here that can give you a lot more tips. Unfortunately most of my operating hours was with old worn equipment. You learn what you can and cannot get by with when running worh rails. Don't give up on it yet. A few hours on it and you will feel it when it tightens up as it starts to come off, allowing you to stop and reverse direction to walk it back on. Sidehills are tough on snaky tracks also.
What I did was apply light pressure until it wanted to turn, then I let er have it. I was pushing a log with the side of the bucket trying to turn. I was really asking to throw the track.
My case 450 will pop a track if it am not carefully when turning on hard packed ground or on rocks. I normally can hear it starting to jump off roller on bottom before it get set up to fall off. i make wider easier turns and keep them pumped up
My 350 will make noises before the track jumps off, usually best to stop and change directions, fix the problem, usually an unseen stump or a stick working its way in there.
And just like that, shes gone. I still have some video I made when I was out. Ill try and piece it together when I get a chance. I appreciate everyone's help!
Did ya make any money or just dump it??
And we were just starting to have fun......... May be just as well.
I made a little
Where did it go ?? Salvage yard ? Someone going to repair the tracks and put it to work ?
A guy bought it to dig a pond and to keep it as a toy.
Well darn it. Don't forget to start looking and go buy another machine. We all need more toys. And entertainment.
That was a great, entertaining, and informative thread.. keep'um coming..
Yeah, there's a Ritchie Bros sale coming up just down the road from you on Hwy 59. They always have something that needs some attention.
I've got my eye on 2 small excavators. But, I'll probably goto the Richie bros auction first. Never know what's there.
Picked up a cat 277b skid steer. Needs a track and possibly some injector pump work. I'll start a new thread about it when I dig into it.
ALRIGHT!! Time to get a full bowl of chips and a cold drink & settle in.. this should be good.. Lots of knuckle bustin about to happen.. I'd rather sandpaper a pole cats ass in a phone booth, than work on a skid steer.. Let me know when you start on the inj. pump.. you HAVE TO time it before removing it, if its a VE pump.. or you'll spend DAYS trying to figure out why it wont run.. Believe me, you don't want to take it off & put it back on more than once..
Lol it looks like a p7100 off my 12 valve, and nothing is easy the first time. And to be honest, that pump isn't coming off until it doesn't run. It just needs hydraulic lift cylinders re packed, new seat, and a track
an inline?? wow.. I don't think I've seen one stuffed in a skid.. just VE's and PFR's.. Snap a pic when you get that far..
Better order 2 tracks or it wont run straight like the loader.
One track was replaced by the reseller, however the lugs are cracked and about to break off, looks like its hitting a square tube in the front like it was adjusted wrong. Ill snap a pic here in a minute, looks like the engine is a cat 3044C DIT engine from mitsubishi.
oh no... it is a VE fml here is the new thread, HeavyEquipmentForums Ill post the video I made with the 350 one day when I stitch it all together. Problem is I just bought this loader and a new KTM 300xcw enduro, so its pretty low on the priority list lol
The new KTM 300xcw would be pretty high on my list to. Although I would have to stud the tires or take a road trip. What does the w stand for. Wide ratio gear box?
Yep, wide ratio. However I need to change my sprockets from 13:50 to 15:45 for more road use. It's waaayyyy too torqy